Can We Really Free Fleets From Fossil Fuels? | Utilimarc Fleet FYIs

Gretchen (00:06):

Hey there. Welcome to Fleet FYIs, the weekly podcast by Utilimarc that reveals how you can make the most of your data for smarter fleet management. My name is Gretchen, and every week, you'll hear from me and some of the, the industry's finest in candid conversations that will shed some light on not only two decades' worth of data insights, but some of the industry's hottest talking points and key metric analysis with the aim to help you better understand your fleet from every angle.

Gretchen (00:33):

But before we begin, if this is the first time you've heard our show, thanks for stopping by. I'm so glad you decided to come along for the ride with us. But I've got a quick favor to ask you. Once you've finished today's episode, if you could take a few minutes to leave us a review on your favorite podcasting platform, we would really appreciate it. Give us a rating, five stars I hope, or (laughing) tell us what you like or leave us a comment or a question about what you've heard in today's episode. But if we haven't yet covered a topic that you're interested in hearing more about, let us know. We would be happy to go over it in detail in a later episode. If that sounds good to you, let's get back to the show.

Gretchen (01:11):

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Fleet FYIs podcast. How are you all doing today? I hope you had a lovely week and that you're ready to catch up on another episode of this show. I'm actually headed out to California next week for the Fleet Forward Conference which I am very much looking forward to and very excited to attend. And it's kind of fitting considering our guest for today's show is actually located in Silicon Valley. So, if you're actually gonna be at the Fleet Forward Conference, let me know, I'd love to chat, (laughing) love to meet up with ya. But if you've ever wondered, and let's pivot back into the topic of the show today, if you've ever wondered what exactly the sustainability movement for vehicles, you know, both fleets and consumer means going forward, you're not alone. It gets a little bit confusing, right? There's a lot of conflicting messaging out there that can make electric vehicles sound fantastic one minute, a little scary the next, you know, especially with the colder climate argument (laughing) that the rain's just gonna go, 'Mm. Whomp, whomp'. Um, same thing goes for alternative fuels. You know the drill.

Gretchen (02:18):

But our guest today is from Motiv Power Systems, and their goal it to, cue tongue twister here, free fleets from fossil fuels. Now, can it be done? Let's find out.

Gretchen (02:41):

So, today, I've got a newcomer with me for the Fleets FYIs podcast. It is Jim Castelaz, founder and CTO of Motiv Power Systems. Hey, Jim. Welcome to the show!

Jim Castelaz (02:52):

Hey, Gretchen, it's a pleasure to be with you today.

Gretchen (02:55):

So, I wanted to start off this episode by delving in straight away. Can you tell me a little bit more about Motiv Power Systems, what's got your engine revving? Excuse the really bad pun these days.

Jim Castelaz (03:08):

(laughing) Yeah, of course. So, uh, at Motiv, we're in the business of freeing fleets from fossil fuel. And, uh, we do that by supplying all-electric truck and bus chassis, uh, for medium-duty applications. I usually call them 'people and goods movers'. Um, so, kind of between passenger cars and long haul trucks exists all those other vehicles that deliver bread and packages and linens and kids to school and, and that variety. So, Motiv makes those vehicles electric, essentially. We make an electric version of, of those vehicles. Um, and, uh, you know, as far as, um... Maybe I should say, gets my motor spinning, since we're an electric vehicle, uh, company-

Gretchen (03:48):

(laughs)

Jim Castelaz (03:49):

... uh, instead of engine revving, but I would say that, um, it's a pretty exciting industry to be a part of right now. There's a lot of, a lot of interest in, in electric, and I think that's because, uh, well for one, it, it saves fleets money, um, and another reason is it helps them meet their sustainability goals. These are zero emission vehicles and they can be run off electricity that's generated from wind are sunshine or anywhere you'd like. Um, and I think that the electric vehicle industry generally is, is in an exciting place, and it's maturing as we see more electric vehicles on the road. And, uh, these medium-duty trucks are just great candidates for electrification, because they tend to do the same routes, uh, every week and return to a depot every night for recharging so, um, there's a lot of interest there, and I think, uh, um, when we look at, uh, kind of public policy, there's a lot of interest there as well, both incentives and regulations that will encourage the adoption of this cleaner technology.

Gretchen (04:44):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). That's awesome. And you know, you're so right, electric is such an exciting part of the industry to be in these days. But can you tell me, what does it mean to truly free fleets from fossil fuels? I feel like every time I say that, it's a bit of a tongue twister, but what does that mean? (laughs)

Jim Castelaz (05:02):

(laughs) Yeah, so, you know, our, our vision at Motiv isn't, um, that fleets have to use one energy source or another, it's that they have the opportunity to perform their work and get their job done while being in control of their energy future. All right, and so what that means is not being reliant on, uh, you know, fossil fuel coming from halfway around the world, but, but really having the option of how they power their fleet. And so if, if a fleet wants to power their trucks with sunshine, we can enable that. All right. And you know, we, we're not saying electric is always the right solution for everyone in, in all cases, but its' a pretty, pretty powerful, kind of, arrow in the quiver of a fleet manager that's looking to reduce risk, um, and kinda maintain operation excellence in their fleet. By moving to electric, they move a big step closer to really being in control of, of their energy future and how their fleet and operations are using energy to accomplish, you know, their task of delivery or pickup or some other people or goods movement.

Gretchen (06:05):

Sure. Sure, that makes a lot of sense. Um, so can I ask you an opinion question, then? Because I've heard this a few times, you know, just spinning around the industry and actually in, um, an article I was reading the other day. When it comes to moving to electric, you have a lot of people that are concerned, say for example, that not all the energy is, quote on quote, clean energy because of how it's produced, you know, via coal power, what have you. Do you ever run into that issue when you're trying to sell someone on a, on an electrification solution?

Jim Castelaz (06:33):

Yeah, I mean, I, I think, uh, we, we do, right, because, so, moving to electric does two things. One, it, it eliminates any local air pollution, right, so the vehicle itself is now clean. And that's really important when we look at local health outcomes around the vehicle. The driver, the passenger, if there are passengers, the community the vehicle is operating in. The fact that the vehicle has zero emissions is a big positive health impact. I mean, diesel particulates are, are carcinogens, right, and so, just moving those omissions out of the community, uh, is, is, is helpful for health outcomes.

Jim Castelaz (07:11):

Um, but these vehicles still run on energy that's produced somehow, it's just electricity, right. And so, um, they're not... That's why I say electric vehicles are a piece of the solution. If you just do electric vehicles and you're generating your electricity using, uh, coal plants from the 1970s that doesn't have proper emissions control technology, um, you know, you can look at the models for this that some of our national labs, like Argonne National Labs, have produced, then you, you're probably still cleaner, um, but you're certainly not zero emissions wells-to-wheels, right. And so, um, cleaning up the grid is an important piece to making electric vehicles truly zero emissions wells-to-wheels. Um, the, the kinda good news there, though, is, is... It looks like, historically, if we look at the last 20 years, cleaning up the electrical grid has been one of the easiest areas in the economy to clean up energy usage.

Jim Castelaz (08:05):

So making the grid green takes work, and it takes solar and it takes wind and renewables, and it takes, um, you know, portfolio standards, uh, that, that, you know, many utilities have implemented, but it seems doable. The technology is there. And so our grid is becoming cleaner, and, uh, many of our customers now can actually run their vehicles on, with clean energy, whether it's locally generated clean energy or clean energy, um, that they're acquiring through, kind of, market systems that exist for, you know, the electrical utilities. Uh, that, that's becoming a-an option, right, and that's just not an option for vehicles that aren't running on electricity, uh, generally.

Gretchen (08:45):

That's awesome. I love to hear that, and I'm not sure how many, um, of our show episodes you've listened to in the past, but for anyone just listening right now, you know, that is curious or actually probably that has heard me say this, sometimes I feel like a bit of a broken record, we're kind of like you're mentioning, right, electric vehicles aren't the only solution to this and neither is having a clean grid. Um, it's kind of a facet of the whole term of sustainability at its core, 'cause, in truth, sustainability is just about prolonging organizations. Um, but I'm curious, along the lines of cleaning up the grid, because if you're saying that it's a lot easier than, perhaps, maybe, initially people thought, how would you approach somebody that... I guess this could be a multi-faceted question too. How would you approach somebody that's interested in electric vehicles, may have these, you know, electric grid concerns, um, about truly clean energy if you look at it from, you know, wells-to-wheels as you were saying, um, but maybe doesn't know where to start?

Jim Castelaz (09:45):

Yeah, well, first, I mean, I think that's, that's a commendable goal, and we're seeing more organizations that are really thinking through their energy use in that wells-to-wheels sense, um. An, and I think that's great, that's, uh, I agree with you, that's the mentality that, that we need to, that we need to have, kind of, as a, as an economy and as a, as a country and a world. Um, and, you know, I would say, uh... it's gonna take a lot of pieces in this place to get to, you know, maybe true energy independence or true zero emissions wells-to-wheels, uh, you know... But I, I think it's, it's achievable now in, in many regions if you, if you take your delivery fleet, uh, um, you know, and, you switch them to electricity, and then you add some solar for generating that electricity, either locally or you buy the, the electricity from, from a solar, uh, producer, um, you know, when you kind of run the numbers, this is doable.

Jim Castelaz (10:38):

I was looking at one of our customers who's thinking about a large depot they run where they would wanna transition 50 of their trucks to electric, we like, we kind of ran the numbers for them and, um, they could, they'd, they'd be covering, like, 15-20% of their rough line with solar in order to run that entire fleet off of sunshine. And so, this, this does work, and the nice thing about that is, imagine that position, that they bought their vehicles, they bought their solar, um, and the, the rest of their powering and their[connections with charge stations and, and all of that. So, they, they've expended a good amount of capital, but they're operating costs for the next 15 years are almost zero. I mean they-

Gretchen (11:19):

Wow. (laughs)

Jim Castelaz (11:19):

... they've, they maybe have some financing of all that capital they've expended, and so they need a return on that capital< whether they finance it or whether its their own capital. But essentially, it's a known monthly cost, completely fixed, for this week. And for 15 years they have no variability in their operational costs. Pretty compelling for a lot of fleets to, to, to see a, a future that could hold that.

Gretchen (11:41):

Oh, absolutely, (laughing) I'd be sold if you approached me with that, absolutely, no kidding. So, is that doable, though, for every fleet that might be pursuing electrification? I mean, obviously, there's gonna be c- some concerns based on regionality with the, the ability to, you know, power an entire fleet of EVs, or even a partial amount, um, with solar power. How do approach someone with concerns on regionality powering systems?

Jim Castelaz (12:09):

Yeah, yeah, it's a good point. I think, uh, there is a lot of regionality to how power is produced and distributed, and, um, you know, where it's ended, and um, what the kind of local grid, you know, in that region, uh, kind of works, is peaking and what's going into it. Um, and so, you know, I think, a-as a fleet, you kinda have to look at, uh, you know, a variety of solutions when it comes to the energy of your facility, an-and, you know, solar may not always be the right answer. There might be other renewable options, or you might be, um, tying into the grid, and it might be able, you know, the kind of, uh, looking at the grid more holistically and having some public policy around things like renewable portfolio standards, so that areas where it's easier to put renewable resources, we do that.

Jim Castelaz (12:53):

And then, you know, electricity transmission's actually a pretty efficient way to move energy, um, you know, compared to trucking the energy in a tank or, you know, pushing it through a pipeline. Electricity transmission's pretty efficient, so, um, you know, we don't necessarily always need to generate the electricity at the point of use in order to have a very efficient system. Um, you know, when we're consuming regulable electricity.

Gretchen (13:15):

Sure. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I kinda wanna switch gears a little bit, because I really liked what you were talking about when it comes to lowing- uh, lowering emissions, you know, worldwide and, you know, aiming for a cleaner world, not just country, not just region. And I feel like you would be the perfect person to ask about this seeing as you're based on the west coast. Um, but we recently recorded a show, um, it was the ne that aired last week, if anyone listening today hasn't already, um, tuned into that one. But the show itself was on low emission zones and how they'll impact fleets in cities worldwide, and in that show, we touched a little bit on Santa Monica's new green zone that was implemented as a framework sustainability solution ahead of the Olympics that Los Angeles will be hosting coming up, I wanna say it's in 2028? Um, but it was modeled slightly after, um, the one in, I wanna say... uh, Gothenburg, Sweden? And then there's a f- quite a few low emission zones, you know, all across Europe, um, Madrid, Barcelona, uh, and then also, you know, even in London too. Um, but I'm curious to get your take on it. What does the green zones of Santa Monica, um, or I guess, do the green zones of Santa Monica affect your company at all, being that you're in last mile delivery solutions?

Jim Castelaz (14:34):

Yeah, absolutely. We have customers that have, uh, Motiv powered delivery vehicles deployed in that Santa Monica green zone. Um, I think, uh, I think it's [inaudible 00:14:44]. And so, that's, you know, I think that's a really great thing to do, both of the communities who are around there and would otherwise have to breathe all the emissions of, of, of the vehicles, right, so I think it's, it's a great, uh, way to improve, you know, community health.

Jim Castelaz (14:59):

Uh, you know, I also think, um, when you look at congestion and, uh, congestion mitigation, you know, it can play a role, a role there to have these green zones, um, and it just makes it much, much more pleasant, you know, it's not just the, the, um, the air pollution, it's also the noise pollution, um, from, from heavy vehicles, right? That low frequency rumble of the engines when the truck is idling outside, um, I'm sure we've all been in a coffee shop or a place like that and heard that, right?

Gretchen (15:25):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim Castelaz (15:25):

And, and imagine a downtown where you don't have that, I mean, it's just, it's a much more pleasant experience for everyone, and I think, at the same time, you know, Santa Monica's able to show the industry and the companies operating in Santa Monica that this is important, that they wanna lead the way with this, and that, you know, they're wiling to make a stand, and I think it's a great example, um, you know, for, for a city to, to implement, um, you know, these green zones, and, and delivery is, is impacted by that. I mean, because it's, it's a green zone doesn't mean people within that zone don't want packages to be delivered that they order online, or, you know, um, you know, linens for restaurants or, you know, food, um, to stock up the, the stores that are in that region, so, you know.

Jim Castelaz (16:10):

Uh, I think that, that the delivery space is, is well aware that this is coming, and you know, it's not just the, the kind of municipal level regulations, it's also, like, the [inaudible 00:16:22] trucks and, uh, clean fleets regulations that the California Air Resources Board has published and, and will publish that are, that are basically putting regulations in place where fleets have to be a certain percent zero emissions, um, and that percent increases from 2024 on, eventually hitting 75 and 100% in, in, uh, many vehicle weight classes, such as these, kind of, last mile delivery, medium-duty vehicles, um.

Jim Castelaz (16:48):

And, and so I think fleets see these regulations as kind of important, and, and, you know, by, by being ahead there, it's a, it's a differentiator, right? Because they get an adva- an advanced opportunity to learn how to take advantage of the electric vehicles and learn how to work them into their operational cycles, and so, we see many fleets that are really getting ahead by getting some electric vehicles ahead of the mandate, uh, so that they're not, kind of, caught flatfooted as those start to roll in over the coming years.

Gretchen (17:11):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). You know one thing that I've been really excited to see is, um, you know, even here in Minneapolis, I don't think we have... on a city or a state level, for that matter, any mandates for percent, um, you know, low emissions or emission-free vehicles in fleets, no matter what type of fleet it is. Um, but even so, I mean, obviously< there's people that would like to see those be put into place and follow California's lead. However, even without the mandates, we've been seeing a lot of, um, you know, last mile delivery but specifically, you know, UPS, FedEx, Amazon, you've even seen the US Postal Service. A lot of their vans are electric already, and that's been so nice to see, even, you know, so far away from such a popular place for green policies and low emissions policies. Um.

Jim Castelaz (18:08):

Well, I'm, I'm very happy to hear that, because that, that, that's a sign that the policies are actually working, right, because I think the, the secondary goal of some of these policies, at least, as I see them, is to drive the market to a place where the economics are favorable, even without the policy.

Gretchen (18:23):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim Castelaz (18:23):

Right? And so, the fact that we're seeing deployment outside of areas here it's strictly required, to me, says these fleets are seeing the economics of going electric, and that, that's a powerful statement, because that's really how we drive mass adoption, is we make it economical. We make it not only the green choice, not only the quiet choice, not only the (laughing) regulated choice, but also the economical choice.

Gretchen (18:41):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, and I just, I love how much quieter they are. I mean, it's to the pint where sometimes, if I'm listening for a delivery, the only way that I hear a delivery arrive is, um, when my porch door slams shut. I don't even hear the trucks anymore.

Jim Castelaz (19:00):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gretchen (19:00):

(laughing) And it's kind of throwing me off a bit, because-

Jim Castelaz (19:02):

(laughs)

Gretchen (19:03):

... you know, sometimes you just think, "Oh, I'm, I'm really excited for my package that's coming today." You don't hear the truck and then you just hear this slam! And then you go, "Oh! All right!" (laughing) "I guess it's here now!"

Jim Castelaz (19:14):

Yeah, that's been interesting in a school bus space. The bus drivers are no honing the horn when they get to a bus stop, right, because people don't hear the, the bug diesel engine school bus driving up anymore, so.

Gretchen (19:24):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim Castelaz (19:25):

You know, I think, there are these operational a-a-adjustments, but for, for the, for the most part, I, I think people are kinda happy to not, not have the mandatory idling noise all around them, uh, especially drivers who, you know, are in a truck for eight hours a day.

Gretchen (19:39):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim Castelaz (19:40):

You know, they, um, we, we've heard them say, "Hey, you know, um, my, my knee doesn't hurt because I'm not slamming on that brake peddle because of regenerative breaking. Same with my lower back. I'm not as tired at the end of the day because it's, I don't have that vibration, heat, and noise from being so close to a diesel engine all day." And the health impacts of not having the, um, you know, the particulates are, are a big deal too, you know, for people that have to spend a lot of time around these vehicles.

Gretchen (20:06):

And not to mention that gosh awful diesel smell. (laughs)

Jim Castelaz (20:12):

Yeah, well, (laughing), yeah, and it's not just that it smells bad, it, um, it's giving you cancer. So (laughs).

Gretchen (20:15):

Yeah, that, that's not a good thing (laughs).

Jim Castelaz (20:16):

Yeah.

Gretchen (20:17):

(laughing) Oh, that is not a good thing at all. Um, so I'm curious, Jim, when we were talking about green zones in Santa Monica, do you think that's gonna be something that's widely adopted across the US? I mean, obviously, it's taken hold in, um, Europe specifically, and also in the UK, but they've also had a, I don't know, anywhere between 30-10 year jump on the US as a whole.

Jim Castelaz (20:40):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gretchen (20:40):

Do you think we're gonna see that same trend echo over here?

Jim Castelaz (20:45):

Well, I, I certainly hope so, I think it's a, it's a very good tool for addressing local air quality, and, uh, you know, for congestion mitigation, and I think there are lots of cities that could benefit from kind of, that, that green zone approach. Um, you know, and I think, uh, I think also seeing that that works will encourage the, the kind of broader regulatory and incentive landscape, um, where we have, uh, kind of, it's not just the regional air quality, it's the state, or it's a, or it's a countrywide air quality that we're concerned about right. But I think that the green zones are a really good, good way to get started and, and I, I, I think we will see more of a [inaudible 00:21:23] that these are working, that it's not grinding commerce to a halt, right. That if anything, it's making, kind of, a more efficient system that's more pleasant for the people involved.

Gretchen (21:36):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, I gotta say though, I do think that, you know, cities might actuallY find a challenge in implementing this. Just because... And granted, I'm not a total expert in, um, the policies behind them, but if it's something where it involves, you know, not just bipartisan but also residential or, you know, city citizen... or city resident involvement, do you think it's gonna be as easy to implement them as perhaps it sounds in theory?

Jim Castelaz (22:06):

Well, I think infrastructure can be a challenge, right? A lot of times, the heavily urban areas have trouble with infrastructure, um, and finding places for these, for these vehicles to charge, right, and so most final, th-the final miles delivery vehicles are single shift vehicles and they're parked somewhere. Right so, typically, the place where they're parked is, is the place you wanna charge them, that's kind of the lowest cost option. Um, in a, in a densely urban area, like, we've looked at, um, you know, fleets that operate in Manhattan, for example, the place where those vehicles are parked, it, it may be difficult to increase the power feed to that particular lot where they're parked. Um, and so, yeah, I think that there are infrastructure challenges in densely populated cities.

Jim Castelaz (22:49):

Um, there always have been, uh, and I think, uh, electric vehicles are gonna, you know, they're increasing the electricity usage. Now, a lot of times with that, the electricity usage isn't during the time of day where other peak loads exist. Like, typically the vehicles can be charged overnight, you don't really need to start charging until after peak electricity usage of the afternoon and early evening, so, um, you know, there are reasons to believe that it, maybe, isn't such a large challenge as, as other vehicle classes might be when it comes to infrastructure, but, um... You know, and the range concerns obviously don't really exist in these densely urban areas, um, you know, but I think it is part of the making of a green zone is you have to think through the infrastructure that supports these zero emission vehicles.

Gretchen (23:35):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely. Um, and kind of along the lines of challenges, I'm curious what your take on this is. What do you think is the biggest challenge that Motiv is currently facing, whether it's, you know, getting people hyped up on electric or whatever it may be?

Jim Castelaz (23:50):

Yeah. So, it's, you know, at this particular moment, I would say the global supply chain, especially in the automotive space, is a little haywire.

Gretchen (23:59):

(laughing) Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim Castelaz (24:00):

Um, you probably have noticed if you've tried to buy a used car any time recently, uh, right, and the, the whole automotive industry is suffering from the microchip shortage and other, other kind of odd supply chain issues that we haven't seen in the past. And it's, it comes in a, um, not a, not a great time for the electric, uh, vehicle, especially for the electric truck and bus world, because, um, just recently we've kind of matured as an industry to the point where these electric trucks and buses run reliably and economically everyday, and so, uh, you know, we, we have a pretty strong order backlog. We have a lot of people that want electric trucks and buses, um, and right now we can't build them fast enough. So, actually, our biggest challenge to date is trying to build them as, as fast as we can, given, kind of, the global supply chain constraints that, that exist at, at the moment. I think that's, that's a temporary problem, um, you know, but I think that generally speaking, fleets have really, um, recognized how well these vehicles can work for them in so many different applications, and it's pretty exciting.

Gretchen (25:02):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). I guess it's not the worst challenge in the world (laughs), to be too busy or be to in demand.

Jim Castelaz (25:08):

(laughs) Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. Jut don't, don't tell our, uh, head of manufacturing that, because-

Gretchen (25:11):

(laughs)

Jim Castelaz (25:11):

... (laughing) no, um, it's, you know, it is. We wanna get these vehicles out there to customers and get them deployed. Um, you know, and I think the automotive supply chain got a little bit of, of, um, of, of issues going on right now as it's working through towards, uh, recovery where the, the whole automotive world can, can kind of produce vehicles on timelines that are more stable and what we're used to.

Gretchen (25:36):

Sure. Well, don't worry, your secret is safe with me and, of course, everyone listening to this episode.

Jim Castelaz (25:41):

(laughs)

Gretchen (25:41):

Don't worry. (laughs)

Jim Castelaz (25:44):

I doubt it's a, it's a secret if they know this space at all, but, um, it's the reality of the industry right now, and I think, um, people should know that and be aware of it-

Gretchen (25:52):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim Castelaz (25:52):

... that if they order an electric truck today, it's gonna take a while to get it delivered, um, you know, from Motiv or from anyone else. And so, you know, but a lot of, a lot fleets, um, who run these medium-duty vehicles plan in advance, but, you know, fair, fair warning to everyone who is, um, you know, interested in electrification. Advance planning is pretty key right now.

Gretchen (26:09):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely. So, I've got the hardest question of the episode coming up for you, Jim, and I've saved it until last-

Jim Castelaz (26:18):

Okay.

Gretchen (26:18):

... for a reason. (laughing) And it's very opinion based, as this is where you could consider it a tough question. Um, so where do you think innovation in data usage will rank in importance as fleets begin this transition to electric? You know, where they, obviously, where it's possible to do so? Um, because, you know, I have, I've spoken to a few people on this topic where they've said this is the Only overhaul to electric that we're ever gonna see in your lifetimes. Which sounded strange when they said it, but it makes a ton of sense because once you have that initial transition to electric, you won't have another one. Where does innovation and data play a role in that?

Jim Castelaz (26:56):

It's a great question, I mean, yeah, I, I agree f- you know, first, let me say, I-I think that the transition in vehicles right now is the most substantial transition in transportation we've had since the Model T. Since, since really we, we started putting internal combustion vehicles on the road. I think we're at this really interesting, um, uh, kind of, transitionary period, um, moving to electrification, and, and I think it is the on-once in a century, uh, kind of a transition, so, it's a good question.

Jim Castelaz (27:27):

Um, with respect to data in particular, I think, fleets have, have spent, uh, a lot of time in the last maybe, say, decade getting smart abut, um, data of how their trucks and buses run. So, telematics programs, uh, uh, route optimization, um, looking through efficiency improvements, uh, that they can do through driver training and, um, you know, and, uh, vehicle changes, even engine calibration changes, right. And, um, and I think that when switching, when making this big transition to electric, um, continued optimization of how the vehicles run makes sense, um, there's, you know, there's probably ways to optimize how the vehicles run, um, that maybe are a little bit different because of the electric, but probably not, not that different, it's probably just more like continued refinement. I think the, the kind of blue clean for data is actually around, uh, charging the vehicles, right, because this is completely new. Um, vehicles in the past didn't need to charge or didn't have the opportunity to connect to the grid. And so once we're connecting vehicles to the grid, there are, there are all sorts of interesting, um, and valuable, uh, data-driven problems and opportunities.

Jim Castelaz (28:40):

Um, and, you know, so, to kind of walk through a couple, right, th-the first one is deploying the infrastructure for the trucks in the first place, right. The absolute worst way to approach that is to figure out the max charge power of the trucks, multiply that by the number of trucks you have, and install that much infrastructure, right, because you're over sizing by two to four x. And so, instead, um, the data savvy fleet will look at how many miles they're driving, how many kilowatt hours of electricity they expect their trucks to consume, and then how many hours of charging, how many hours of opportunity they have for charging over the course of a 24 hour period, um, and they'll size their infrastructure based on their usage, not based on the capacity of the vehicles. Um, and so, by doing that though, rightsize their infrastructure, but that only works if, uh, if they have data, and data about how their vehicles are used, and data about how that will translate into energy, kilowatt hours usage.

Jim Castelaz (29:36):

[inaudible 00:29:36] I think once the vehicles are installed, then you've got all sorts of interesting optimizations about, um, when the vehicles charge through the day, uh, time of use charging, um, mitigating the facility demand charges, uh, you know, the so-called vehicle to building, um, and then even vehicle to grid, and looking at how these vehicles can actually be an asset to the utility grid versus a liability.

Jim Castelaz (30:00):

And if the regulations are done right, um, fleets can be incentivized, um, to connect these vehicles in such a way with the proper, kid of, management systems, software management systems around charging, that these vehicles become assets to the fleet both when they're out doing their job, you know, 'cause then they're making deliveries or pickups, but also when they're sitting at the depot, plugged in. They become energy assets. And I think that that's really going to be a fascinating frontier for data usage, um, to, kind of, do that asset optimization.

Gretchen (30:32):

Absolutely. I completely agree. Um, and along those lines, because I know there is so much, you know, that we can into an episode like this, however, um, you know, i know this conversation can go along for a very, very long time, there's too much to fit into a half an hour. But is there anything else you'd like to add in before we wrap up this episode, either about electric or Motiv or data innovation, or anything along those lines?

Jim Castelaz (30:57):

Uh, I think that this is it, a great conversation and, uh, you know, I appreciate, uh, spending a little bit of, of time wit you talking through it. I think, um, you know, maybe I would just reemphasize to fleets that, um, you know, electric is, um, should be an option that they should be considering, both for regulatory reasons and just for economic reasons, um, and that consulting with people who are in the space, whether its Motiv or other vehicle builders, or, um, yeah< some of the clean cities and other, you know, non-profit groups that are facilitating the energy transition, these are good conversations to have now, and, and, and, uh, the timing is pretty good now, because getting head of the mandated regulation dates, um, really is going to make, make lives a lot easier for these fleets. So, uh, it, you know, electric is here, I guess, uh, and, uh, you know, I think it can be real asset for a lot of these fleets, um, and especially if they take the time to kind of get smart about it.

Gretchen (31:55):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Absolutely. And, you know, Jim, I'm sure that someone's gonna want to get in touch with you after this show, because I think we covered so much, and there's a lot that would be really, really great to expand on, whether it's, you know, on Fleet FYIs again, or in another, um, in another setting. But if someone wanted to continue this conversation outside of our show, where can they get in touch with you?

Jim Castelaz (32:18):

Yeah, the easiest way is probably Motiv's website. Uh, you know, M-O-T-I-V, P for power, S for system, .com, motivps.com, right. There's a contact us, you can get a hold of me that way, uh, LinkedIn's another good way to get a hold of me. Um, and we'd certainly welcome, um, you know, all, all sorts of inquiries. Um, you know, we're always looking for talented people who wanna, you know, free fleets from fossil fuels, uh, you know, also, we're certainly hiring. Um, and we're always interested in, in any, anything we can do with [inaudible 00:32:48] or other stakeholders in the industry to, you know, help, help drive this, you know, energy freedom. And so we'd, we'd certainly welcome, um, you know, people reaching out and look forward to that.

Gretchen (32:59):

Absolutely. Well, like you said at the beginning of this show, electrification is a very, very intriguing space to be in in the industry right now, and I think, coming out of this episode, number one, my first action item is to try and be able to say, "Free fleets from fossil fuels,"-

Jim Castelaz (33:15):

(laughs)

Gretchen (33:15):

...five times fast without fumbling over it, because (laughing) I'm still struggling with just doing it once right now.

Jim Castelaz (33:22):

I think you nailed it! (laughs)

Gretchen (33:23):

Oh, that, that was a struggle, I had to push through that one a little bit. Honestly, the first time I said it, I was just like, "Heh bleh, bluh bluh bluh bluh, blah." (laughs) That's how it ended up-

Jim Castelaz (33:33):

(laughs)

Gretchen (33:33):

... coming out at first! (laughs) Just because of, just, you know, like, the word nerd in me loves the alliteration, but as a tongue twister-

Jim Castelaz (33:40):

(laughs)

Gretchen (33:40):

... it is a little difficult, (laughs) straight away. But, you know, looking at this, I think, looking into how electric even last mile delivery solutions or medium-duty trucks, especially how it kind of coincides with low emission zones and, you know, regulatory, um, policies, that sort of thing. I'm just, I'm really excited to keep tabs on that, because I think it's gonna be fascinating, and it's not gonna be, you know, the five, ten years down the line that we're gonna see the big changes anymore. It's like, in the time period of six months to a year to two years. And it's happening-

Jim Castelaz (34:15):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Gretchen (34:16):

I mean, it's happening rapidly. There, there's no doubt about it. And it's just gonna be cool to watch.

Jim Castelaz (34:22):

Yep, yep, I agree. I think it's a very interesting time, so, yeah.

Gretchen (34:25):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Jim Castelaz (34:26):

Yeah, I look forward to, to watching it as well here. (laughs)

Gretchen (34:29):

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Well, Jim, I really appreciated having you on the show today, and I'm sure all of your listeners for Fleet FYIs can absolutely agree with me there, um, so, thanks again for taking the time to come on our show. I really appreciate it, it was great talking to ya.

Jim Castelaz (34:44):

Well, thank you, Gretchen.

Gretchen (34:58):

So, do you guys think we'll ever truly free fleets from fossil fuels, so to speak? There's certainly a long way to go to know if that will ever happen, but, I guess, never say never, right? They say electrification is the future, and only time will tell if they're right. Now, the thing is, I've just got to figure out who 'they' is, but they do sure say a lot of things.

Gretchen (35:19):

Anyways, (laughing) tell me what you think about this show. Did you like it? Did you love it? Send me an email, tag me on LinkedIn, or use the hashtag #utilimarcfleetfyis. Oh! And don't forget, there is another episode of Fleet FYIs shorts coming out on Monday, so make sure you tune in for that one, I promise, it's a good label old nugget, and I hope that you like it! Have a good weekend! Ciao!

Gretchen (35:42):

Hey, there. I think this is the time that is should queue the virtual high five, because you've just finished listening to another episode of the Fleet FYIs podcast! If you're already wanting more content, head over to utilimarc.com, which is utilimarc with 'C', U-T-I-L-I-M-A-R-C.com, for the show notes and extra insights coming straight from out analysts to you. That's all from me this week, so until next time, I'll catch you later.