The UK is One of The World’s Sustainability Leaders…Will The North American Market Be Soon to Follow? | Utilimarc Fleet FYIs

Gretchen Reese (00:00:24):

Hey, there. Welcome to the Fleet FYIs Podcast. The weekly podcast by Utilimarc that reveals how you can make the most of your data for smarter fleet management. My name is Gretchen, and every week you'll hear from me or some of the industry's finest in candid conversations that will not only shed some light on over two decades worth of fleet data insights, but also some of the industry's hottest talking points and key metric analysis with the aim to help you better understand your fleet from every angle.

Gretchen Reese (00:00:52):

But before we begin, if this is the first time you've heard our show, thanks for stopping by. I'm so glad you decided to come along for the ride with us, but I've got a quick favor to ask you, once you finish today's episode, if you could take a few minutes to leave us a review on your favorite podcasting platform, we would really appreciate it. Give us a rating, five stars I hope or tell us what you liked or leave us a comment or question about what you've heard in today's episode. If we haven't yet covered a topic that you're interested in hearing more about, let us know. We would be happy to go over it in detail in a later show.

Gretchen Reese (00:01:34):

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Fleet FYIs Podcast. I'm so excited to bring today's topic to the show, as you might have guessed, it has something to do with the trans-Atlantic bridge between North Americas or I think U.S. and Canada and the UK. We're delving into sustainability, international trends, safety and more, but the super exciting piece is that I'm joined today by some of the speakers from these Fleet Vision International conference that takes place in London from the 12th to 13th of April this year.

Gretchen Reese (00:02:10):

For those of you that don't know of Fleet Vision International, the show or the magazine, or you haven't heard more than just the name before, here's what you need to know. Fleet Vision International, the show is the leading B2B trade event aimed at fleet transport and workshop managers employed in complex and specialist operations aimed at fleet management operations who operate large numbers of specialty vehicles and deliver critical services for the public and the supply chain.

Gretchen Reese (00:02:39):

So in this case, think local authorities, waste management, emergency service, airports, hauling utilities, construction, and many more. (laughs). I don't know if I have the breath to keep going, but know that I could. Um, but on today's episode, I have a panel of guests that have worked with, or are speaking at Fleet Vision International, Ann-Marie Knegt, the founder of in the mastermind behind Fleet Vision International. You'll meet her here shortly.

Gretchen Reese (00:03:06):

Next, we've got Kevin Barcroft academy training manager for Simply Waste Solutions. Kate Cairns is also joining us today. She's passionate about saving the planet and vehicle safety. Both efforts can be strongly seen through her work at CLOCS, which is also known as Construction Logistics and Community Safety, and her freelance work through Karen's Consultancy. Vince Dignam is here. He is the business performance manager for the City of London, as well as Michael Britt, who is formerly with ups and now heads his own consulting business called MG Britt.

Gretchen Reese (00:03:39):

Lastly, we've got Nathan Wilson and Sukky Choongh with us as well. Nathan has spent the last 40 plus years in the industry and is currently the account and market development manager for the UK and Republic of Ireland at Allison Transmission Europe. Sukky is the environmental manager for air quality and ultra low emission vehicles and inclusivity officer for the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, otherwise known as SMMT.

Gretchen Reese (00:04:06):

Now, today's show will be a bit of a long one, but I promise it's worth every minute of the listen. So make sure you've got a snack or something to drink on your desk and we will get into the show.

Gretchen Reese (00:04:35):

Before we get into this episode, I just wanted to take a moment to make sure that everyone in our audience knows exactly who is on the panel. So if you wouldn't mind, could you introduce yourselves? Tell me a little bit about your role at Fleet Vision and perhaps a little bit about what you do outside of the conference?

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:04:51):

Hi, um, nice to see you today. Um, here at, um, the, the podcast. Um, my name is Ann-Marie Knegt. I am the, uh, creator, director of Visie Communications and the editor of Fleet Vision International magazine. I, uh, basically have about 17 years, more than 17 years of experience, uh, as a B2B journalist in firefighting and [jump 00:05:16] sport. And in 2020, I started Visie Communications and a long Fleet Vision International. And, uh, now after the pandemic, we've launched Fleet Vision International Show. And we've basically, um, launched this event here in, uh, co- conjunction with the City of London, the City of New York and, uh, the CLOCS and the s- the SMMT, uh, all have all been kind enough to partner with us.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:05:44):

And we, um, aim to promote excellence in frontline fleet and essential services. So the event is based, is, is, um, focused on fleet and transport managers and directors and frontline fleet operations, and basically anyone that manages specialist fleet. And we try to provide a very, a truly international perspective and a very delighted, or that you all could join us here because I've worked with you for a long time. I've known you, and I know, um, they're all outstanding professionals in their field.

Nathan Wilson (00:06:18):

Hi, my name is Nathan Wilson. Uh, I work for a global corporation called Allison Transmission, who are a provider of automatic transmissions for the whole of the truck, bus and military sector. I've been in the industry for over 40 years now. Uh, I have a degree in, uh, a strategy retail strategy in the automotive field and previous to working with Allison Transmission, I was employed for nearly 20 years with Mercedes-Benz truck and bus vision heading up the fleet division.

Nathan Wilson (00:06:59):

Uh, prior, prior to that also I worked for Hyundai Motor Europe. Uh, so I've got a great understanding in all aspects of transportation, both passenger car, industrial, as well as truck and bus. I am advocate of Fleet Vision and, and I partner with them supporting them through, through Allison Transmission. It's a great think tank.

Sukky Choongh (00:07:29):

Hi, I- I'm Sukky Choongh. So I'm environment manager. I work for the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. So we're the UK trader association for the automatic industry. We have somewhere in the region for about 800 members, um, including Nathan. So hi, thank you. Um, but our, our members include vehicle manufacturings, supply chain makes up the bulk of it. Um, as the technology transition to electric is evolving so is our membership. So we have charter point operators, digital tech companies, et cetera.

Sukky Choongh (00:08:02):

Um, so, so a fair few, we represent pretty much everybody with four wheels and more except for Formula One and including, uh, the off highway division as well. So, so my role generally, um, is to make sure our members are engaged and up to date on what's happening with environmental regulation, particularly on air quality. Um, my engagement includes local, regional, national governments and Europe as well.

Sukky Choongh (00:08:28):

Um, just to show, we think that our, the answer to improving the air quality is fleet in your model shift. So of course, you know, our, our members have created product, and we have somewhere in the region of 150 plugging vehicle models available, um, across car, van and HGV. So, you know, we're expecting about 300 by 2025. So we really want to enable that shift to allow people to, to go to net zero in transport.

Sukky Choongh (00:08:56):

And I've been working with Ann-Marie for feels like a couple of years now, I think so thank you for inviting me to the podcast and also to get involved in some of the events, I think really, really useful, particularly with the, the Fleet Vision events to, to understand the perspective of operators. You know, we can make a vehicle, but it's only useful if an operator can make good use out of it for their function. Um, so, so that's a great value to us.

Kevin Barcroft (00:09:18):

Hi, my name's Kevin Barcroft. Um, I work for Simply Waste at, of, um, [inaudible 00:09:24] waste services. Um, my role involves voltage tasking, really, um, dealing with fuel efficiency, the environment, um, training and legal compliance within the group. Um, I also sell the alternative fuels working group for different ways.

Kate Cairns (00:09:51):

Hi, everyone. Thank you for having me here today. My name's Kate Cairns. I help engineering construction and logistic companies save money, time and lives through training, consultancy and professional speaking. And I specialize in sustainability, safety and inclusivity. So I've been doing that running my own freelance, uh, as a freelance cares consultancy for about 16 years now. Um, I'm a chartered engineer, chartered civil engineer, chartered environmentalist, and, um, I've worked sustainability since probably my MSC dissertation was on adopting sustainable business practices. And that was I think, in the year 2000.

Kate Cairns (00:10:35):

So I've, since then I've worked major projects and, um, I'm very heavily involved in the institution of civil engineers as well. I'm a fellow and a council member there. Um, I suppose the biggest impact is that I've helped not within one company, but I've helped instigate and develop two world first industry standards. First is sustainability CEEQUEL for improving sustainability in civil engineering. And secondly CLOCS, Construction Logistics and Community Safety.

Kate Cairns (00:11:06):

And, um, I've campaigned a lot on that. Um, I actually came into safety following the death of my little sister who's run over by an HGV and I've campaigned a local national and European level to change law and bring in new standards. And now we have amendments to, uh, the EU directive in 9653 on CAP design, in London, we've got a Direct Vision Standard and across the UK, we've got CLOCS the CLOCS standard and I help, um, deliver workshops, training and construction, logistics, planning. Um, I do motivational speaking for safety days, leadership events and things like that. And I'm delighted that Ann-Marie invited me to speak at the event at the show. So thanks for having me.

Vince Dignam (00:11:51):

Uh, my name's Vince Dignam, I'm the business performance and transport group manager for City London Corporation. Uh, I, part of my role at the city is to look after the transport and I plan, uh, the cleansing and waste contracts as well. Uh, I've been involved with Fleet Vision from the very start, uh, great advocate, worked with Ann-Marie and all the team, uh, for years and years and years, uh, building up the international part of it as well, really, uh, and bringing in, helping bring in and, uh, share experiences and, uh, what we do, uh, for air quality, you know, innovation with the vehicles and everything else.

Vince Dignam (00:12:34):

The one other thing that I'm involved in I'm involved in clubs like [inaudible 00:12:38], uh, I'm on some of the working groups for that, but I'm also, uh, on the executive and the governance group, the Fleet Operators Recognition Scheme, which is called FORS, the acronym. Uh, and I've been lead. I've been on that for quite some years, um, lobbying, uh, and we were one of the first people and first local authorities to bring a low entry topograph safety vehicle to the City of London as well.

Vince Dignam (00:13:06):

Uh, great advocate of the networking and the, and the magazine that Fleet Vision International. And we're happy to be co-hosting with Ann-Marie and all the team, uh, and New York and everyone else here in the city on the 12th and 13th, uh, we get behind it. So we're great advocates and we'd like to try and make a dis- difference and share the knowledge we don't hold the knowledge to ourselves or do be the custodians of anything we do. We wanna get it out there and share it and help others as well.

Gretchen Reese (00:13:40):

All right. Thank you for that, everyone. Um, so one question, and I think this is probably the best place to start this episode off with is, um, what is your take on sustainability as a whole, or rather, what does it mean to you personally and to your organizations?

Vince Dignam (00:13:57):

Well, I'll, I'll kickoff, um, for us sustainability is it's a whole, uh, whole lever of things really. Uh, it's the air quality. What sustainability does is the circular economy, reuse of parts and everything. Uh, and w- and we look at it in depth really, uh, we've even put policies in place, uh, for no diesel policy. Uh, we're part of the Westminster Commission, uh, as well, uh, for air quality. So it's best practice there. Uh, so we really promote sustainability really. And that's part of the air is that I feel is, uh, makes up sustainability.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:14:43):

Um, road transport. I think it's responsible for, well, for a large amount of, of, of the total emissions. I mean, um, sustainability is, is not just, uh, the coping with the environment. It, we can only it's, it's, it's, it's, it's an underlying philosophy that we, that sustainable is you need to be able to keep on operating. And if we start producing more and more and more emissions and create more and more air pollution or other environmental pollution as an industry, the, the whole industry won't be sustainable.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:15:15):

Therefore, I find that the fleet industry has a duty to lead, uh, when it comes to, um, sharing sustainable practice and coming up with solutions to reduce emissions and coming up with solutions to reach net zero to promote, uh, technology such as, uh, the conversion to electric and then le- battery electric hydrogen vehicles. Um, and we need to highlight what transitional technology is available for fleet operators right now, like, uh, smart intel or intelligent transmission systems biofuels such as HVO or, um, any other sort of fuel management system that, um, that, uh, le-, lets you burn fuel and lower temperature and therefore with fewer admissions.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:16:01):

So there's a lot of, um, information out there, there's a lot of people are not aware of. And I think what we all have in common, uh, that all of our organizations and partners is that we need to spread the knowledge about this.

Sukky Choongh (00:16:16):

I think so we, we published publish a sustainability report every year. We've been doing it every year since the year 2000, and we pride ourselves on, we think we believe we're the longest standing continuous sustainability report, and nobody has challenged me yet. So I'm gonna continue to make that claim. But, but in terms of what it means to us, um, absolutely everything, you, you know, the, the challenges presented for the automotive industry are, are higher than any other industry sector we've already got end of sale dates, et cetera.

Sukky Choongh (00:16:47):

Um, and it's not just about vehicles and what happens at the tail clock, but the whole ecosystem of the energy that you put into vehicles. There's, you know, and to quote a colleague of mine, there is no point in putting brand energy into green vehicles, you know, because you're just transferring emissions in miles. Aside from vehicle and technology as well, there's also social performance, um, diversity and inclusion. What happens to that equity piece?

Sukky Choongh (00:17:12):

Um, you know, we-, we- we've talked a lot about infrastructure at SMMT and what we need for that transition to electrification is absolutely essential that on this drive to sustainable mobility, whether that be, uh, owner or a public transport model or shared mobility that everybody's included in it, um, and fleet's especially as well, like we can't believe in people behind because, they don't have access to charging infrastructure or they can't afford a vehicle. So, so that whole sustainable mobility agenda, um, w- we've, we've also got to continually question ourselves and say, "Are we including everybody?" Um-

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:17:47):

Yeah.

Kate Cairns (00:17:47):

... lives everywhere, all communities, as well as urban communities in this transition.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:17:47):

Absolutely it, that's why we're, we're trying to have a holistic approach to everything like everything's included. It's not just emissions, it's safety, it's fleet and road safety, it's diversity and inclusion to get a more diverse wor- workforce, but those of the staff shortages, um, and, and, and I think, you know, you have to take the whole picture into account.

Nathan Wilson (00:18:15):

I see myself as a responsible and corporate citizen. I've always worked for, uh, organizations that believed and, and, and breathed all aspects of sustainability. My current organization that I work for Allison Transmission is really dedicated, uh, to sustainability. And again, produced their report in 2020. And for our organization, it's about protecting human health, natural resources, as well as the global environment.

Nathan Wilson (00:18:50):

And this dedication reaches further than just the compliance of law to encompass in- integration of sound, environmental practices, you know, for, for all business decisions. And it is, it isn't just about the construction of vehicles. It's about diversity, it's about inclusivity, it's about opportunities for all, including those that are unable to.

Vince Dignam (00:19:16):

Other things I was gonna add to it is here at the City of London Corporation 'cause we're a government body that council local services. It, it goes further than just vehicles for us is the waste is how you can reduce waste. Uh, uh, you can, uh, you know, even down to having less vehicles and doing something smarter, uh, and like everyone else says it's about corporate social responsibility as well. Uh, and how everything aligns.

Vince Dignam (00:19:44):

And we've here at the city, we've got a golden thread that runs through everything. So we've got sustainability climate action. We're looking at the whole picture. Uh, we've got our environment, health team, but all from the chief exec all the way down, our members, counselors, everything, uh, and we come together and we share the practice, uh, and we share that with others as well, residents, businesses a whole lot. So it's a big picture. Uh, I know we are talking mainly about vehicles here in our indirect, but it's all the back office systems and how that all ends up coming together, uh, uh, working for the greater good really, uh, and be sustainable and efficient.

Kevin Barcroft (00:20:29):

Certainly for when you look at the word sustainability. I, I think all the words have already been said, um, we come across each, every one of us, we come across so many obstacles in the way of sustainability. Our environmentalism of sustainability has for somebody else. We hear it's a waste of time. You say it's sustainable, but you say we can now, but, but the people on this podcast, uh, is absolute proof that it does work. We've got the evidence.

Kevin Barcroft (00:21:18):

Um, Vince was talking about Westminster Commission for our road quality. Um, and Sukky also is involved in a lot of different things and Nathan as well. Um, we all know that this is a problem with the environment and sustainability plays a massive role in that. And you don't have to be a big organization to do something about it. And, um, certainly for bit waste services and simply waste organizations I'm involved in. Um, it plays a key role in everything we do.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:22:03):

But we all have, but we have, we're quite rooted in the waste industry. And I actually think that the waste industry, uh, and with regards to HGVs has been leading in developing new technology that will be able to be applied, um, on other HGV, uh, the, the, the nature of the duty cycle of, of, of refuse collection vehicles, we call it over here and RCV is that it's one of the highest polluting vehicles in, in, um, well in existence.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:22:34):

But it, it was a waste industry that actually took the first couple of steps to do, to do, uh, to, uh, develop the first, um, electric refuse collection vehicles. It was, um, you know, t- to leading manufacturers and Dennis Eagle and electric commercial vehicles have got working, um, functioning vehicles on the road. And that, t- that technology is now applied in other services and in other sectors. And, uh, Kevin has been doing a lot of, um, trials with HVO in his refuse trucks, for instance, and you're even combining it with solar panels. And, um, people, good maybe Kevin wants to, uh, say a bit more about that.

Kevin Barcroft (00:23:15):

Um, well, HVO, everybody goes on about electricity, you know, electric vehicles, hydrogen vehicles. Yes. They're there and they're right for the right applications. Um, and we've got this cliff edge, uh, sorry for pinch in the Brexit buzzword.

Gretchen Reese (00:23:37):

(laughs).

Kevin Barcroft (00:23:37):

Um, look, we've got-

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:23:44):

No need for buzzword.

Gretchen Reese (00:23:44):

(laughs).

Kevin Barcroft (00:23:45):

I've, 2035, 2040 and everything will change. The truth of the matter is if we do nothing, what, what level of pollution, what level of damage will happen if we just wait for that cliff edge? The trouble is the industry as a whole, and I don't mean the waste industry. I mean, transport, waste and every little business around that. They quite often wait until it's too late, um, until they push through legislation. But-

Nathan Wilson (00:24:24):

Yeah.

Kevin Barcroft (00:24:25):

... what we've decided to do is, is try HVO and make a big difference now. It can give up to 90%, um, reduction in greenhouse gases, 80% reduction in particular matters. Um, is it 100% green? No, it's not, but 90% isn't bad. Um, and we can, we decided we can do something about that right now. We've had some fantastic, um, results, and we're gonna continue on that path. We're still going to continue looking at hydrogen. We're still gonna continue looking electric.

Kevin Barcroft (00:25:12):

We've introduced a number of vehicles. Um, a number of other little initiatives are as, um, Ann-Marie said, we've even started, um, installing solar panels on the roofs of our trucks to run ancillary equipment. And we've also used Nathan's products as well. Um, the, the fuel saves two system, which is phenomenal, it's getting really good results. So we're doing what we can when we can. And I think more people should do the same.

Kate Cairns (00:25:51):

Um, Nathan, um sorry, Kevin, and, and you, you raise some really good points and, you know, most cities and, and countries have cater to climate emergency. It's an emergency which suggest we should do something now. And yes, absolutely the end goal is, is absolutely zero, but whilst still trying to develop the technology and have the relevant refueling and charging infrastructure to put that in place, surely doing nothing is, is not an option.

Kate Cairns (00:26:15):

You know, we, we have seen massive improvements in the U.S. six days on, but there are drop in fuels. There are hybrid technologies and there are options that people can take. And, you know, we, we hear a lot of people complaining, um, and, and kind of denying the environmental concern because they can't afford it. And again, I go back to the point of making sure we bring everybody along and, and rather than continually talk about barriers. Yes. Acknowledge there are barriers, but let's talk about how we can do it rather than why we shouldn't do it. So, you know, really came to get some ideas as well from everybody about, you know, the, the easiest way and the quickest way of transition for everybody.

Kevin Barcroft (00:26:55):

And, and that's the point. Um, I did make very eloquently, um, the biggest two barriers to being more sustainable with vehicles is A, the cost, the CapEx. Um, and, and the other one is infrastructure for hydrogen, for electric. Um, I'm sure shortly Vince will be able to let us know how it went for him. Um, whereas HVO is a quick instant fix. It doesn't need any modifications to the engine. It's just a quick drop in replacement. You can use blends of a HVO with diesel. Um-

Kate Cairns (00:27:47):

GTL.

Kevin Barcroft (00:27:47):

Which reduces that cost even more. Um, but obviously it doesn't give as much environment benefits. Um, and, and that's why we're choosing HVO as an option be because we can defer that big CapEx that we know we've got to make at some stage, whether it is hydrogen or electric or something they haven't even invented yet because let's face it, everybody's working on this problem. We all remember the Betamax and VHS argument. And that is another barrier as well. People are waiting to see what is gonna be the VHS instead of the Betamax.

Vince Dignam (00:28:37):

You make a good point there about that, uh, Kevin, because the reason we've led with the electric 'cause we used to use it fairly odd years ago, here in the city was the old mills of, uh, vehicles, uh, for our operations. Then we had to go the well, everyone was pushed the diesel, uh, and we put no diesel policy in place, uh, to try and, you know, not overnight change, but we are gradually changing. We're not there yet. We're not over the hill.

Vince Dignam (00:29:07):

Uh, but what I, I do a lot of presentations on this and one of the biggest problems has been infrastructure. Uh, be-, you know, you've gotta get the infrastructure right before you even think about purchasing a vehicle. We've diverted power from the UKPN network here. And we're just having a substation finally fitted, uh, for, for the power. It's not just for the vehicles.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:29:32):

Vince you might wanna explain what fleet you've got. Um, because the audience won't know.

Vince Dignam (00:29:36):

Yeah. So what we've had to do as well, uh, it's not just for the fleet that we've got it's for the operations of the depo, uh, the offices and everything else. So had to put half a million pound just to build a substation, uh, and enhance it. We've got a mixture of fleet. We've got, uh, the, we've got five, four 19 ton and it's or Electra, uh, vehicles, fully electric. Uh, we've got a 26 ton Electra as well. Uh, we've got small electric sweepers, we've got, uh, vans.

Vince Dignam (00:30:11):

So at the present time we've got about 50 electric vehicles, uh, on the fleet out of, uh, potential 170, uh, coming in at the moment. So we'll work gradual steps to it. But as Kevin and Sukky and everyone else has alluded to, we're not putting all our eggs in one basket, yes, we're going predominantly fleet of, uh, electric because it suits where we are in the city in the Square Mile. And it works for our operation.

Vince Dignam (00:30:40):

Some of our outline operations, I'm working on a lot of stuff at the moment, uh, for hydrogen. 'Cause I think it's gonna suit that operation better. Uh, but 'cause of, uh, one of the problems that we have had with developing some of this is Brexit, COVID's got in the way, uh, and it's pulling back. So what, what Kevin's done, it's great. Uh, and what Sukky alluded to, you know, a little bit helps, uh, anyway, uh, and working towards it. So everything catches up. But we've had, we, you know, there are people and you know, this, what I bang the drama about is infrastructure's key. That will be the questions I ask.

Vince Dignam (00:31:22):

You know, I was at JCB a couple of weeks ago, they're developing hydrogen. We just keep saying about the infrastructure. I was at [inaudible 00:31:32] the other week we said about infrastructure as well. And every manufacturer that listens to me, I tell him, "Yes, good having all this, but you've gotta have the infrastructure. Not only that you've gotta have the expertise that can fix it." Uh, and that's another big stumbling block, you know, prior to us getting our products on board, everyone was trained on that.

Vince Dignam (00:31:52):

Uh, and Burtech, uh, the, the new legislation and training program is in place that works. So it's not just one part the jigs or I was always getting it all aligned. Otherwise, you know, I know people would have got electric vehicles sitting in the corner of the yard and hiring in diesel because they can't power them up. Uh, and they didn't listen about the infrastructure. So you don't want people to have these expensive lessons as well. That's why we like [shouting 00:32:23] them by, you know, Fleet Visions, a great conference to flag this out there.

Vince Dignam (00:32:27):

And that's why we travel around to all these different shows, ours, you know, recycle live CIWM events to shout from the rooftops. Don't just go, you know, think, you know, we can just plug them all in, uh, look at, you know, take the little steps. Like what, uh, you know, I've talked to Nathan, you know, we did a big project with Nathan, Nathan looking at electric versus their technology, [inaudible 00:32:52] all the questions, uh, and you know, they've come up with a solution as well or not just one solution, several solutions at the moment. Uh, and they're all working well for different people as well. So I think it is looking at bigger picture and bringing it all together, uh, and not one size fits all live up.

Nathan Wilson (00:33:11):

All, all agreed. Um, you know, it's really, really clear that what everyone has said, uh, in essence is that, um, battery technology, hydrogen technology, hybrid technology will no doubt play a significant part in the future and in the views of many engineers and scientists. You know, there are no real, they are the real alternative to, to diesel, but, you know, we must understand, and I'm sure we do around this, this table, that there is not one single bullet. And therefore, you know, looking at infrastructure, uh, is a key, uh, element of moving forward if we're to have a sustainable future.

Nathan Wilson (00:34:01):

And of course, reducing tailpipes emission is essential, uh, to, towards, uh, net zero by introducing solutions today. You know, now for instance, we, we mentioned blended fuels, you know, e- e- emission, emission and exhaust control systems, new telematics, intelligent telematics, and, and these are transitional resolutions that fleet are able and will be able to adopt in the short-term. As many of you have said, we're, we're standing on the edge of a precipit and doing nothing now is not, is, is, is not the way to go. And therefore, you know, these, these just these transitional technologies play, uh, a more important part if we are to meet these goals that our governments have set us.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:35:01):

I think it's also really important to consider like evolving battery technology because, um, battery electric vehicles are currently quite heavy. The non-tailpipes emissions still are going up. And at one point, if we keep the vehicles the same way to get, get, not stopping them from becoming heavier than non-tailpipes emissions and the ultra fine particulates will be as harmful as a diesel tailpipes emission. So I think that's something important to consider.

Kate Cairns (00:35:31):

Just letting that run. I think we've covered, we're moving on to all of the other questions there, but I suppose the scope of this question opens that up. So for me, what does sustainability mean to me and my organization? Well, I would say sustainability is synonymous with my professional work and indeed my personal life. I grew up on a beach in North Northland. I've seen a devastation that the, uh, global warming or climate change is making. I see sand dunes that I played on as a child are no longer there anymore, right in front of my eyes.

Kate Cairns (00:36:03):

And, and that's just here and, and there's impacts right across the world, which are much more severe than that. So I'm a chartered environmentalist as well as a chartered engineer because I'm so passionate about this. And as I said, I was involved in instigating a world first tool to improve sustainability in civil engineering called CEEQUEL.

Kate Cairns (00:36:24):

And we actually worked with the, um, so, um, American Society of Civil Engineering in that development in about 2003, I also sat for several years on the editorial panel of the IC for Journal Engineering Sustainability, and I was reviewing and publishing papers, choosing papers to be published on that. And I was actually, um, chosen to be an ICE superhero called enviro-, um, when we celebrated our 200 year anniversary, um, a couple of years ago.

Kate Cairns (00:36:52):

And now I advise that I speak on sustainability, indeed sustainability, um, I, I have been a sustainability consultant for a number of years. And it's interesting 'cause when people used to ask me what I did back then, I used to say, I was a sustainability consultant and they say, "Sustain a what?" You know, they didn't even know of the word sustainability, and now everyone's talking it about it, everyone's using it.

Kate Cairns (00:37:16):

Um, and I, I now teach a, um, I lecture at Durham University. I'm a role academy of engineering, visiting professor on embedding sustainability and inclusivity into engineering. Uh, and what I normally start off with, with them is talking about the actual definition of sustainability, 'cause we, I use it interchangeably a lot. We talk it well mean corporate social responsibility, what we mean inclusivity, what we mean environmental issues. But the broadened definition of sustainability means is meeting our needs without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their needs.

Kate Cairns (00:37:54):

It's about a triple bottom line, a balance of environmental, social and economic issues. And there, there are synergies there, you know, it doesn't necessarily cost more. It's about balancing those costs. So if we're more efficient, if we have less waste, if we're using less energy, then obviously we're gonna be saving more money. So I think sustainability is synonymous with business success. I think, you know, if you wanna progress into future, it's not just about being in business, but I think it's crucial especially now.

Kate Cairns (00:38:24):

And you know, it's great that the world's caught on we've had COP26 and everyone's talking about it. However, I do believe there's still a lot of green wash people talking about it. Um, but not necessarily doing it. Uh, I am seeing quite a lot of that post COP26. But also, you know, I'd really caution against the idea that technology is the perversea, um, to solve all our ills. You know, um, we, we're all talking about electric vehicles, but actually, um, something like 75% of journeys in the UK are under five miles. That's, you know, journeys overall and we've got 60% of our primary school-aged children are obese or overweight. Those kids don't cycle or walk or schoo- to school in this country because their parents are frightened. What are they frightened of? HGVs. And what are the biggest number of HGVs in collisions? Construction industry HGVs.

Kate Cairns (00:39:25):

So actually we can have electric vehicles, we can have battery operated, et cetera, cetera. But if we're thinking about sustainability and our part in the wider world in how you meet the UN sustainable development goals, which is the framework which most organizations are working to now, we can do a lot, but we can do a lot to sort of think about our impact, uh, our direct impact and also our, our, our, our direct impact and our indirect impact as well.

Kate Cairns (00:39:53):

And that's a lot of the work that I do. I help organizations look at their risk, identify their risk to communities and remove that risk so that the communities in which they work are not afraid to take part in active travel. And there's massive move now toward travel. Um, and it especially post COVID as well. Uh, I mean the other thing it's really interesting working with these students, I've just done yesterday, tutorials with them and they're doing their design projects. And a lot of them are looking into, um, hydrogen, um, battery operated, um, devices. But, you know, uh, we mustn't forget our, when we try to solve our problems of today, like going back to frontland definition, we can very easily create problems elsewhere, um, that we haven't thought of. So it's about that meeting our needs today without compromising the ability of future generations.

Kate Cairns (00:40:50):

So batteries use conflict minerals. They use cobalt, lithium. Most of cobalt comes from the Congo where there's extremely poor labor standards. There's forced labor, there's child labor, there's bribery, there's corruption, and of batteries only 5% at the moment is recycled. So some of my students looking at how they might buy something to recycle batteries. So it's a bit like, you know, uh, when we, when we had the industrial revolution, it was fantastic. We create new civilization, uh, new technology, you know, we're all gonna work a four, three day week when the internet came along. But instead we created acid rain.

Kate Cairns (00:41:27):

Um, we've got the internet where we're all gonna be on holiday half the time, but in fact, we've created a whole load of other problems, grooming, sexual abuse, dark internet, all sorts of stuff, unintended consequences that we hadn't thought about. So I think we've gotta be really careful when we think about the solutions to these problems. And it's not just about technology, it's about working practices. It's about efficiencies, or coming back to logistics.

Kate Cairns (00:41:54):

I deliver, deliver training on construction, logistics, planning, and managing construction logistics. And, um, what we talk about is actually in the first place, reducing the number of vehicle movements before we're even talking about how to make the vehicle safer or more efficient, because, um, I dunno if you know what there was commonly moved material, uh, HGVs and in logistics is fresh air. That's mostly what we, what we move because, uh, we're doing a return trip.

Kate Cairns (00:42:23):

So reverse logistics, just simply planning logistics and, and applying reverse logistics can massively reduce our impact. Consolidation centers, moving stuff to, uh, river and rail, there, um, issues that we can do. And when we're more efficient, we save more money. Uh, when our vehicles are safer, when we train our drivers, they're less stressed, there's less collisions. There's less time off from work. These are the holistic issues that we should be looking at where we're looking at sustainability and safety. It's not just about having, um, an electric or high technology vehicle. Like someone said, obviously innovation technology has a role to play, but it's much wider than that. And, um, uh, so- something we talk about in the training is, um, a couple of years ago, there was the first ever, um, reference to air pollution on the death certificate of a child in London, even though, um, EU had air quantity standards in well, before we were breaking those. And, and so-

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:43:19):

Ella Kissi-Debrah.

Kate Cairns (00:43:20):

Yes, exactly Ella Kissi-Debrah and, and, um, that was tragic. You know, we're actually killing our children, not just through air pollution, but under the wheels of our lorries as well. So, um, that, they're the issues that I think we should be considering when we're talking about sustainability within, um, fleet and logistics and engineering.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:43:41):

I agree wholeheartedly because, um, well obviously I work for the Westminster Commission road, air quality as well. And we had a presentation from, um, Jemima Hartshorn from Mums for Lungs. And I think, um, air quality and safety go hand in hand. 'Cause if, as Kate just... If the streets are not safe, people do, don't wanna walk around them. Um, and, and vice versa, they, they get into the car because they feel safer cause more pollution. So I think, yeah, reducing vehicle movements and creating safer streets and better environments for people to basically move themselves from one place to another area is, is key.

Vince Dignam (00:44:20):

I agree. Um, Kate you've really summed it up well there, uh, because the first thing we done before looking at any of this term technology was reduced awfully reduced it by in the first year, over 50 vehicles and by the end of the program, uh, and then introducing this with over 100 vehicles, uh, so we just looked a bit smarter and then how we could do it more efficiently and how we could get rid of them vehicles. And the other thing that we really plan as, you know, Kate and Marie and, and probably Kevin knows is that we, we, before we bought them vehicles, we wanted them to be safe. So we had a direct vision standard as well. So we had to get the right vehicle fixed purpose and not just buy 'cause we were being sold, try, people tried to sell us other vehicles that wouldn't comply, but we held that up until we could get the correct vehicle as well.

Vince Dignam (00:45:11):

Uh, and what we've done in the city is consolidation using cargo bikes as well. Uh, so, and our contractors we've been encouraging cargo bikes and everything else as well. Uh, and it's just starting to be very successful. Uh, so it is going, I think you've, you've really hit the nail on head there Kate, is going back to bases and though bases don't reinvent the wheel either. There's a lot of stuff that we used to do. Uh, you know, and I'm not saying Holson car could even come again into city. Uh, watch this space.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:45:44):

Might be of interest for Kate, uh, to explain or, and Vince to explain what role the [inaudible 00:45:48] and CLOCS directors have played in, in, um, the UK as a whole, 'cause it started from London-

Gretchen Reese (00:45:55):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:45:56):

... but now, before, you can't see a truck on the highway without the FORS status on the back. And ha-, can you tell a bit more about that because I think that's interesting for an international audience.

Gretchen Reese (00:46:05):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kate Cairns (00:46:07):

Yeah. Shou-, should I do that Vince? So, um, well I'll kick off anyway. So CLOCS is Construction Logistics and Community Safety, and there was spate of deaths in London in, um, 2013 or actually 2012. I think there was three deaths in one week cyclist and that kind of sparked a movement, um, where hundreds of cyclists laid down on the street and blocked the streets and laid down and played dead to, um, kind of demonstrate to kind of say that, "We need something to be done." And, um, the industry there was, there was a kind of push, it was on the front of paper.

Kate Cairns (00:46:53):

Um, at that point, uh, my sister had already died. She died in 2009. So I was very much campaigning at that point. And there was a real movement, um, within the industry that we actually need to do something about this. I mean, I felt privileged in my position in that I was a bereaved sister, but also I was a chartered civil engineer working in construction. Some of the biggest construction projects, very [inaudible 00:47:12] in institutional civil engineers. So had, had a lot of connections and a lot of potential influence and they actually, um, did a cover piece on the front page of New Civil Engineer with me out the front challenging industry to do something about this and then CLOCS came together. And I think that first CLOCS meeting there of 30 or 40 organizations, um, to work out what we should do.

Kate Cairns (00:47:33):

And we decided that we need to, to create a standard, standard for managing construction logistics. And, uh, that was made up of lots of different organizations and different groups. But at that point it was called Construction Logistics and Cyclist Safety because most of the focus were on cycling because that's what hit the headlines. But actually, um, it was discovered that twice as many pedestrians are killed by HGVs and there are cycles. So that's why we made the movement to, um, community safety.

Kate Cairns (00:48:04):

So now we've got the standard, it's been, uh, over 600 members a thing now, we've, um, we deliver, I help deliver construction, logistics, planning, training, which we talk about as a golden thread that runs through CLOCS. So that brings us together, the developer, the client, the planner, the principle contractor, and operator together to work on a plan to manage construction logistics, because the way it's design at the moment, the supply chain's so long, projects are so complex, that logistics is often not thought about at all at the beginning of the project, it is to get through planning, but often it's a tick box exercise.

Kate Cairns (00:48:44):

So, um, now we've got this CLOCS standard, we've got, um, CLP training. Um, we've got on bike driver training, which I dunno if you know, at the beginning, Vince, um, we, we had talked about exchanging places where we get little kids to come and sit in the big truck and see how dangerous it is. And I said, well, "Hang on, that's not exchanging places. We need the drivers to get on bikes and see how dangerous it is." And at first there was a bit of a backlash about that, you know, um, health safety, we can't do that. We can't ask drivers to get on bikes. It's too dangerous.

Kate Cairns (00:49:16):

But now it's a really, really successful scheme, safer than driving. And I think, um, 98% drivers that do that training have reported that they understand and, uh, drive much more safely around, um, well in communities around pedestrians and cyclists and children, which they never realized before, because they, they didn't understand the fear of being passed even at one meter, you know, at 30 miles hour in HGV truck. So it creates that empathy. So that's been, um, an outstanding success.

Kate Cairns (00:49:46):

And then we've also got the Direct Vision Standard, which came into force in London last year, where vehicles that don't have that direct vision won't be allowed, or they have to have a permit to show that they're meeting that direct vision standard. So not using cameras, not using sensors 'cause that creates cognitive overload, but actually being able to see, just being able see out of the window, reduces stress massively and reduces blind spots, uh, and ultimately reduces deaths.

Vince Dignam (00:50:14):

What was interesting, Kate, uh, in all that you said there, the, the common thread for me was that, um, we all have a part to play. Uh, the part that the consumer play is through individuals like yourself and others that have experienced firsthand what poor transport init-, initiative causes. So we need consumers, we need organizations because both parts play a really, uh, imperative part to moving forwards as we are working towards the sustainable goals. Uh, and, and therefore education becomes really, really important. Um, if we are to change the trajectory that we've all spoken about, about, uh, new technologies, new education, you know, knowledge and therefore the likes of our think tanks, the Westminster Commission, FORS, CLOCS, SMMT, Society of Automotive Engineers, mechanical engineers. I can go on about all of the various think tanks.

Vince Dignam (00:51:30):

But these are all important imperatives to press our governments, to press each others as, as responsible citizen to make these changes. And not just the changes of tomorrow that we've, we've spoken about, but the changes of today, you know, some of the most, um, successful changes are the most simple changes. And that's what transitional technology is all about. It's about simplicity. So there are some of the things that, uh, I've taken away from what you've just said, Kate.

Kevin Barcroft (00:52:08):

Well, certainly Kate, you, you've raised an issue. Um, and it's a good issue. It's one that I preach quite a lot because of my background, which is in training. Um, we often get dragged into the concept that technology is a fantasy. The truth is when we look at environmental benefits, um, and all of that, the, the biggest contributing factor to saving, um, the environment can sometimes be the most basic of things, whether is safety or environment, the biggest thing that will make a difference is the person behind the steering wheel.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:53:02):

Yeah. Human behavior.

Kevin Barcroft (00:53:04):

Human behavior. Um, and that's what we do in Simply, a-, and more and more within BITA is we try and use things like telematics to identify where the weak points are. Um, put interventions into place to help us save the environment, save lives. And let's not forget, save money. Because they're all linked. They're all linked (laughs). Um-

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:53:39):

Vince, um. Sorry.

Kevin Barcroft (00:53:43):

No, carry on Ann-Marie.

Ann-Marie Knegt (00:53:45):

No, this is a good point for Mike to step in because he's gonna talk about that at the show. So Mike, if you could briefly introduce yourself and, uh, talk, tell us about your, um, background with Fleet Vision, THE SHOW, and obviously, Uh, as it was in his former form, um, that, that you've been doing the keynote to the former similar events, uh, (laughs) and, um, then, uh, what you will be talking about in, in, real-, um, at the show, 'cause that's actually really, really interesting and relevant to what we're discussing right now.

Michael Britt (00:54:17):

Hey, good morning, thank you, Ann-Marie. Um, well my name's Mike Britt, I served the chief engineer for UPS for advanced poultry vehicles for, from 2010 in the 2017. I retired in 2017. I went to consulting. So I had the opportunity to work with, uh, uh, many different manufacturers, vehicle manufacturers. And, uh, we, we quickly learned that ADOS, you know, advanced drivers assist safety systems, uh, was, was a, a real money maker for us. You know, when they first came out with it, they, they were, they were very expensive, um, very, very expensive systems.

Michael Britt (00:54:52):

We were able to negotiate, get those systems down to a reasonable cost. And what, what that did was open our eyes to all the money we were saving through the biggest thing is the, the, the mitigation, you know, even if there's an accident does occur, it's so much less damage and less loss of life when you have intervention, whether it be, uh, uh, breaking, whether it be roller or stability control.

Michael Britt (00:55:21):

Um, you know, when, when we could start to, uh, uh, mitigate that, that damage, that that's what we really noticed that the fatalities went down dramatically. And these guys, everyone on the call here knows, you know, fatalities, average 5 million in the U.S. Uh, that's an average one, you know, you can have them being catastrophically high or a little bit lower, but, uh, so, so we, you quickly learned that safety wasn't just being, uh, good corporate citizens. Safety is also being fiscally responsible, uh, by, by, uh, intervening with the drivers with, with our advanced drivers, this, uh, programs. Now the sensors and the cameras have advanced so much in the last three to five years. It's gonna, gonna be exciting, uh, little chat we're gonna have there.

Gretchen Reese (00:56:04):

Yeah. Um, so I'm curious because I feel like we've covered some of the other questions that I wanted to touch on, you know, primarily surrounding electric vehicles, hydrogen technology, and some of these alternative fuels. We've covered that in many touch points. Um, but one thing I think that's a little bit more and I think it will differ depending on who's answering. The question is do you think that organizations are actively working towards these sustainability goals, these initiatives, um, new policies that have been implemented, do you think they're working towards it because of their own initiatives? Or do you think it's more consumer driven?

Kevin Barcroft (00:56:40):

I think it's, it's both. Um, it depends on the organization you ask.

Gretchen Reese (00:56:46):

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin Barcroft (00:56:47):

What their priorities are, um, what specifier, uh, pressures are placed upon them. Um, I think is a very, very hard question to answer unless you answer it of your own organization.

Michael Britt (00:57:07):

Yeah. You know, corporate culture, uh, is definitely changing. Um, and, and again, just to be frank about it, what, what we did, we, we linked sustainability and safety and, and some of the other things that the organization want to do, right to, right to the, the scorecards that are paychecks. So senior executives, uh, if, if they're not, um, acting, uh, in a, a good, sustainable manner, meaning they're not switching the fleet over quick enough, not reducing idling, not, you know, a whole deal, the technologies that we have the availability to use to, to reduce emissions. And we measured it, you know, we, we measured everything right down to the last hydrocarbon.

Michael Britt (00:57:48):

So, so we were able to, um, uh, link that right to their paychecks. And that, that just changed everything. I mean, and I, you know, I, I hate to go down that road, but that's the, that's the way to change, you know, behavior isn't gonna get changed unless you, you have a dramatic, um, um, you know, carry or stick if you will. But then we found that this, the stick is better.

Kevin Barcroft (00:58:10):

I, I think with our organization, we've, we're lucky. We've, we've got, shall we say a little bit of a passion? Um, if you employ somebody to do a job and they're targeted, um, yes, you'll get results as Mike said to stick, but when you've got somebody that believes in what they're selling, they believe in what they're doing for doing it for the right reasons. Combining the fact that SAFED, Safe & Fuel Efficient Driving. If you are driving safely, you're driving fuel efficiently. If you're driving fuel efficiently, you've got a, a safe driver then the linked completely. So you can get the two [goalsed 00:59:01] in one. And then from a corporate side is, might very well, um, suggested it, is massive financial benefits in being sustainable environmentally friendly and safe. Um-

Kate Cairns (00:59:21):

I mean, I think that goes back to what, what I was saying before. Wasn't it? The, the definition of sustainability is balancing. You can't be sustainable if you're just environmentally, um, excelling. It's about the environmental issues, the social issues and the economic issues. And I've been working with the sustainability consult for about 20 years now. And some of them do it to be seen to do it.

Kevin Barcroft (00:59:44):

Yeah.

Kate Cairns (00:59:45):

Some of them do it because clients ask them of it. And some of them do it because they understand they want to do it. They think it's the right thing to do, but also they reap the benefits. So like you say one, one more efficient, it costs less one we're safe. Our drivers are less stress, stressed, less time off, less crashes, but also we've got ESG now, we've got environmental, social governance issues that being asked investors are asking about environmental, social governance issues of companies and of boards.

Kate Cairns (01:00:15):

Um, with, and it's becoming more and more prevalent that we need to prove what we're doing these areas. And there's boundless research that shows us by McKinsey and others that shows that companies that are more sustainable, they're more profitable. And we know that companies that are more diverse, uh, are more profitable. We know that companies that have more women on boards are more profitable. We've got the data, even for each extra woman, the company is more profitable. It is like we said before, it's holistic, it's a whole package and we can't do one without the other. And, um, there's synergy in addressing all of these issues and the problem we have in organizations at the moment, I think it's very much siloed. We have one department doing this, another department and doing that. And that's why it has to be at leadership level. You have to have leaders understanding the importance and the benefits of sustainability and diversity. And we can't be sustainable, I believe if we're not diverse. To be sustainable, we need to have diverse thought, diverse views and include everyone.

Ann-Marie Knegt (01:01:15):

Yeah.

Kate Cairns (01:01:15):

And when we, where especially we see this in engineering there's, um, I dunno if you've seen that book, Caroline, by Caroline Perez about Invisible Women. We design stuff that excludes people by default. And that's because we haven't got diverse teams making those decisions and, and, uh, uh, defining what we, what plans one strategies and the vision. So, um, yeah, there's a number of drivers, I think, uh, and some see that there is a desire, a luckily con you know, consumers are being more aware of this issue. And there is a desire in someone just said before, as consumers in our business, as employees, as employers in whatever we do in our life, we, we are consumers as well.

Kate Cairns (01:02:00):

And that, that drives a lot. And so as a consumer, we can use that power. And that's what I work in procurement as well, procurement standards and supply chains. If we specify stop, if we specify in contract documents and procurement documents, if we specify CLOCS for safety, then we've got much more chance of creating change across the industry.

Ann-Marie Knegt (01:02:21):

Well, there's four pillars of sustainability, social, human, economic, and environmental. And I think that that aligns with how a lot of companies see their, um, procurement policy now and corporates, uh, responsibility prac-, um, uh, that they do now. Uh, corporate, social, environmental responsibility. That's it? Isn't it?

Gretchen Reese (01:02:45):

Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin Barcroft (01:02:46):

Well, the, the one thing I'm proud of is our industry, the waste industry. Um, Ann-Marie mentioned it earlier on, um, we're a bunch of entrepreneurs. Um, the whole industry is, um, we think outside the box, we're willing to take on a bit of blue sky thinking. Um, we will invest in people and we are full of passion. Uh, and that's why love our ind-, our industry so much.

Ann-Marie Knegt (01:03:21):

Yeah. We work together. We act, actively try to come up with solutions together and look beyond, uh, just basically trying to sell our products 'cause yeah, there is a definite passion.

Gretchen Reese (01:03:34):

Just to tie it back into the Fleet Vision conference here. Um, this is a real connection of the U.S. and the UK. So I'm curious if there's any sustainability trends that you're seeing that are going trans-Atlantic, how are they different? How are they the same and what do you expect to see in the future?

Ann-Marie Knegt (01:03:52):

Um, well, I think New York, um, who, who will be delivering keynotes together with TFL. Uh, so we have, uh, Keith Kerman, a chief fleet officer for, for New York and deputy commission, uh, deputy, deputy commissioner speaking, and Bert Martinez, who is the head of fleet and operations for the, uh, NYPD. Um they're best, they are well, the NYPD is the largest police fleet in the U.S., um, most likely in the world. And they're already so far, um, in the electrification process, um, or finding sustainable means to run their police fleet. It's, it's incredible, they're they, they they've really led in the world.

Ann-Marie Knegt (01:04:36):

Um, um, I think they're further the, the most cities, um, when it comes to basically making the New York fleet sustainable. Um, then we also have an overview from TFL, um, to, to talk about what they've been doing on, on the front of air, air pollution and, and establishing cleaner transport in London.

Ann-Marie Knegt (01:04:57):

And I know for a fact that in past events that we had that TFL and New York have connected, and that they've been exchanging their safety practices with each other, like New York is very, uh, strongly involved in the Vision Zero Network. And to get it for Safe Roads, which is a lobbying organization, safety lobbying organization from the United States that consists of fleet operators. And we have the FOIC and the CLOCS, which I know that as a result of past events that we've done, uh, have been, uh, taken up in Canada and, um, that New York is talking about adopting.

Ann-Marie Knegt (01:05:34):

So we're trying to create a more unified sort of approach to things. And that's the beauty of how we share, uh, knowledge into continental. And we just, and, um, it was a shame that Adam Smith from Calgary couldn't make it, uh, because he's taken over from, um, Sharon Fleming. Who's been with us, I not event in the past that was similar. And um, you know, when we created this real strong group that has had a really, um, good relationship and we, we constantly communicate and come up with new ideas, Mike's been speaking at a similar event to this one before as a keynote. Uh, so he's been part of this relationship as well. Haven't you Mike?

Michael Britt (01:06:20):

Yes. Uh, yeah, I, I think that, you know, UPS being a, a global company, we, we have responsibility to be sustainable in, in, in, in all the places we operate in. And, uh, we, we certainly, we share that technology across the pond. There, there's no doubt about that. And plus, you know, there's a lot of things that the, the folks in, in Europe do, you know, Mercedes is, has a lot of advancements going forward. Um, and, and we, we utilize the, the European factors in the, in the U.S. as well. So we're, we're excited about that. This is a real collaboration we're not arguing about, which get is the worst between a Euro 6 and a 2010 CARB diesel. You know, we're, we're, we're all pretty much in alignment that zero emissions is zero emissions and, and there's a lot of great propulsion system to get us there.

Kevin Barcroft (01:07:04):

Uh, the other thing I touched on what Mike says, um, I think that big sum divide is ever shrinking. Um, we in, in Europe, in the UK can learn a lot from, um, North America experiences, for example, CNG. Um, we are looking at CNG now, waste companies in the UK. Mm, North America been using it for two decades. Well ahead of the game. Um, it's so much cleaner than diesel-

Ann-Marie Knegt (01:07:45):

Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative).

Kevin Barcroft (01:07:46):

... and the majority of waste companies in North America use CNG. Um, I think we're a little bit ahead of them when it comes to, uh, HVO and other biofuels, but there's great lessons to be learned, especially from initiati-, initiatives like this with, um, Fleet International. I, I think it's one [inaudible 01:08:11].

Ann-Marie Knegt (01:08:12):

In, in, in the U.S., the environmental protection agency has a lot more power than over here. Because obviously they, they, the, they've, they identified the Volkswagen emission scandal and, um, you know, the, the reliance in general, in Europe on diesel is really heavy. So that, uh, there's a lot of in, in the U.-, in the U.S. people tend to use more petrol vehicles and that is, it is, it's not the best, but it's better than diesel, diesels much more poisonous.

Kevin Barcroft (01:08:42):

Well, we fell foul of that old argument, didn't we? And the difference between environmentally clean and greenhouse gases, um, you know, we were pushed by the government to go down the diesel route and then a few years later is, "Oh, no, you naughty people. That's the wrong fuel to use."

Ann-Marie Knegt (01:09:04):

Yeah.

Kevin Barcroft (01:09:05):

Um, yeah. Oh, dear. (laughs)

Gretchen Reese (01:09:07):

(laughs) I think that's all you can say sometimes is, "Oh dear. All right. What's next?"

Kevin Barcroft (01:09:12):

(laughs)

Gretchen Reese (01:09:12):

(laughing) Oh, all right. Before, um, before we wrap up the show, is there anything else that anyone would like to add, um, before we go?

Ann-Marie Knegt (01:09:25):

Um, yeah, you can sign up, um, uh, for the show at fleetvisionintl.com. Um, there's several, um, I'd love, we'd love to see you there. Come over from the States from Canada, all over Europe. Uh, it's gonna be a fantastic event. We also have, um, uh, an awards and ga-, gala dinner the night before, um, that the tickets are online on the same website. So, um, we just hope that you can all join us, uh, and, um, join the debates to, to basically become more sustainable.

Kevin Barcroft (01:09:56):

Excellent.

Gretchen Reese (01:09:59):

All right, well, thank you all again, so much for joining. Um, I really appreciate your participation in this panel and then also for the folks that had to drop off as well. Thank you to them too. And Ann-Marie, thank you for connecting us all together to be able to have such a nice conversation today. I really appreciate it.

Gretchen Reese (01:10:33):

I hope you all enjoyed having a listen to the panelists from Fleet Vision International. The show today, personally, I love chatting through sustainability, new technology and up and coming solutions that could soon become mainstream in the fleet industry. As always though, I would love to hear what you think. Do you think we should host more panels on Fleet FYIs in the future? Do you like talking about sustainability or just hearing about it as much as I do or new technology or up and coming solutions? Let me know, send me an email tag me on LinkedIn. Use #UtilimarcFleetFYIs or you can always send me a carrier pigeon if you like.

Gretchen Reese (01:11:09):

I'm looking forward to hearing from you. But also one thing to note, all of our panelists' contact information and their LinkedIn profiles will be in the show notes of this episode on your Utilimarc website, which is www.utilimarc.com, utilimarc.com and will also be linked in the episode details below. If you'd like to get in touch with anyone that's been on the show, would like to learn more of about Fleet Vision International, or ask any questions of any kind. Now I know this episode has been so much longer than what you're typically used to, so I will wrap it up right now and right here. So until next time, that is all from me, chao.

Gretchen Reese (01:12:11):

Hey there, I think this is the time that I should cue the virtual high five because you've just finished listening to another episode of the Fleet FYIs Podcast. If you're already wanting more content, head over to utilimarc.com, which is Utilimarc with a C, utilimarc.com for this episode's show notes and extra insights coming straight from our analyst to you. That's all from me this week. So until next time, I'll catch you later.