Global Sustainability Series: What You Need to Know Now About Fleet Electrification | Utilimarc Fleet FYIs

Gretchen Reese (00:06):

Hey there, welcome to Fleet FYIs, the weekly podcast by Utilimarc that reveals how you can make the most of your data for smarter fleet management. My name is Gretchen and every week you'll hear from me and some of the industry's finest in candid conversations that will shed some light on not only two decades worth of data insights, but some of the industry's hottest talking points and key metric analysis with the aim to help you better understand your fleet from every angle. But before we begin, if this is the first time you've heard our show, thanks for stopping by. I'm so glad you decided to come along for the ride with us. But I've got a quick favor to ask you. Once you finish today's episode, if you could take a few minutes to leave us a review on your favorite podcasting platform, we would really appreciate it. Give us a rating, five stars I hope, (laughs) or tell us what you liked or leave us a comment or a question about what you've heard in today's episode. But if we haven't yet covered a topic that you're interested in hearing more about, let us know. We would be happy to go over it in detail in a later episode. If that sounds good to you, let's get back to the show.

Gretchen Reese (01:12):

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Fleet FYIs Podcast. If you've tuned in over the last week, I really hope that you've enjoyed the last couple of recaps um, (laughs) of the daily events of the Utility Expo, and if you haven't listened to those yet, I highly suggest that you go back and do so. If you've never been to the event, it's truly something to behold, uh, forgive my (laughs) use of formal language there. However, it is one of those events that is a little bit overwhelming, but in the best way. I mean, you know, you have over 30 acres of, um, basically (laughs) for lack of a better term, fleet stuff, um, you know, tons of bucket trucks, tons of aerial lifts, and a lot of really cool new equipment that's being brought in to be showcased, and a little bit of everything in between, right? I mean, it's a fantastic event. Michael and I had a fantastic time at the event and we're really looking forward to the next one, because I think that it's just gonna be even better.

Gretchen Reese (02:13):

Um, if you did go, you'll know that this year was probably at about a 50% capacity, just in terms of exhibitors, as well as people that are typically there. But even still, it was a fantastic event. You know, it really, it really, they did a great job. THey did a great job putting it on, it always felt safe and, um, you know, still sparked the same excitement as years passed. But moving on, (laughs) we're back again today with another episode in our global sustainability series. This time focusing solely on all things electric vehicles. And I know sometimes electric vehicles are a little bit touch and go when it comes to how you can incorporate on their fleet, uh, or incorporate them into your fleet. And you know, I wanted to dedicate an entire episode to EVs in part because we've been speaking about them pretty frequently on the show. I mean, you know that, you know, you've been frequent listeners, at least I hope so. Um, but, you know, there's also a lot surrounding this technology that sometimes breezed over when it comes to new launches, and even, you know, con- controversial implementation policies and adoption mandates.

Gretchen Reese (03:13):

It's really complicated (laughs). I know that, you know that. And the thing is, is ... and part of the reason I bring up this whole touch and go piece of the EV movement is because not every vehicle class or industry can electrify. We're just not there yet. And when the pressure is on from upper management and consumers to become more sustainable, it can be pretty frustrating to say the least, at least, you know, I know I would be frustrated (laughs) if I was a manager put in that position.

Gretchen Reese (03:38):

And the thing is, is whether it's hesitation or logistics, I know there's a lot of questions surrounding electrification movement. With any new technology, there's always going to be differences of opinions, potential concerns, and EVs are no different. For example, will my mechanics need new training to maintain an electric fleet? Yes. If my data isn't a direct translation to internal combustion engine data, how can I make a true comparison for return on investment or cost comparisons, you know, easier to read? How often will you need to replace an EV fleet? Is there enough real life data rather than anecdotal data on the topic yet? Will they be more efficient? Is there a charging infrastructure available to support a fully electric fleet in your region specifically? Or perhaps if you, if you operate in multiple regions, how would that work? How long will it take to charge a fleet vehicle? Are there certain charging types available? You know, the list could go on forever.

Gretchen Reese (04:48):

So the real question that is on the table, is 2021 the year to actually adopt electric technology? Well, again, (laughs) I hate to keep saying that it's complicated, but in truth, it completely is. Because if you ask any fleet manager today, they'll tell you that the electrification of fleets is no longer simply on the horizon, it's here (laughs), whether you've already begun adopting this new technology or looking to make use of the internal combustion data, you already have to become more sustainable. 2021 will certainly and has certainly been a year where we'll begin to see the movement embraced more than ever before. And, you know, that'll be true for the coming year too, 2022, especially when large auto manufacturers like General Motors are making pledges to be carbon neutral by 2040 and if you've been paying attention to your OEM news, as of late, Ford just made the biggest commitment that it ever has done for a sustainable technology, but more on that later.

Gretchen Reese (05:44):

Um, you know, I think this movement, it really depends on the region of fleet as well, which I'm sure as you know, can be a massive concern for many fleets across the US, even worldwide, I mean, (laughs) obviously, because there's different climate regions everywhere, you know (laughs), but the truth is, is that most of the data currently available for sedans, um, or I should say, it's either for sedans or it's anecdotal for manufacturers when it comes to vehicles that could be used in utility or municipality fleets. I mean, Rivian is the first one to actually bring a product to the market of an electric pickup truck, so it is very new. And there's a potential that the charge range will decrease in colder climates, especially ... I mean, that could be said for any piece of battery powered equipment, but, you know, it's also along the lines of, you know, you have, especially in colder climates, the heat is going, you have multiple people in a cab. And think about it this way, if everything is powered off of the battery, more stress on the battery because, you know, there's more people in the car and you always have your heat on. Well, yes, your range will significantly decrease.

Gretchen Reese (06:48):

Electric fleet management and traditional fleet management are more similar than one might think, though. But, you know, they also come with a few key differences and the differences are managed by looking into the data that not only comes from manufacturers, so that's the anecdotal we were talking about, but also that of industry peers that are pursuing electrification. So that's where, you know, reaching out to, uh, folks that are already integrating EVs into their fleets or even, you know, really making the most of a company that does a benchmark, especially when it comes to, um, you know, not just EV data, but also internal combustion engine data. That can be really, really helpful for a lot of people in the industry.

Gretchen Reese (07:24):

And electric vehicles are an emerging technology coming alongside plenty of potential enhancements for fleet operations and sustainability initiatives. But, you know, you still have some people that are very wary, especially with concerns that many fleet managers in the utility space echo. And if we're talking about concerns, I mean, you all know, that's one of the most common topics within the movement to go electric. I mean, there's plenty of benefits, yeah, sure (laughs). I mean, you know, many are excited to see this new technology being adopted into the fleet industry, especially in cities that have already begun the going green transition. But it's been reported that overall, you know, electric vehicles have a lower cost of ownership, no fuel expense, aside from charging, less moving parts, which means less maintenance costs, less pollution output, and perhaps, you know, they might even allow for more eff- efficient fleet operational strategies. But does that mean they're right for you? Does that mean they come without concerns? No. I mean, as with any new technology, I mean, you all know this, (laughs) you're all smart people, you have some that are very excited, there's some that are gonna be on the fence, and some that are caught up in concerns. And fleets around the world have suggested that when the technology becomes available, they'll electrify. But for those that haven't yet, the question is, well, what are their concerns overall?

Gretchen Reese (08:44):

Well, this is where I think it's very, very interesting and this is actually a new piece, um, that, you know, we just became privy to about, you know, I would say myself, I just became privy to this about a week ago or so. But if we're looking at (laughs) the sustainability movement, and also actually, you know, just resources available, let's take a look at the comparison between petroleum and lithium. If you look at when the world is considered that it will probably run out of petroleum, all of the, um, oil reserves that, you know, are used to create the fuel that we use to fuel our vehicles, fuel our ships, fuel our airlines, everything along those lines, odds are the reserves will go until about 2090. Now, if you look at lithium, when it comes to lithium ion batteries, which are (laughs) very important to EVs, especially now, the reserves are set to potentially run out by 2053, which, if you do the math, it's about 40 years earlier, roughly, if you do the math very, very accurately, it's 37, 37 years earlier then the, um, then the oil reserves will dry up. So there comes the question of, is it EVs that's the right way forward, or is it gonna be more of a balanced approach?

Gretchen Reese (09:52):

Well, let's get into the concerns of EVs overall, because this might be something that you might wanna take note of. First on the list, we have electric power grid capabilities. Now, electric power grid capabilities differ per state nationwide. We know this already, right? When we're looking at the average consumer consumption, that's kind of fun to say, average consumer consumption (laughs) of electricity on any given day, the same amount of an average American powering their home, including running appliances, computers, light, heating, cooling, it's equivalent to the 30 kilowatt hours needed to power an electric vehicle for 100 miles. Now, a study done by the US Department of Energy found that by increasing electrification due to majorly, um, or due majorly to the wider adoption of ... um, adaptation of electric vehicles, it could boost energy consumption by nearly 40% by 2050. So, you know, whilst sustainability is a huge driver for this technology, a lot of this depends on whether the energy being produced in a sustainable is being produced in a sustainable, renewable way. So think your solar, your wind, and your hydropower, just as a few options here.

Gretchen Reese (11:10):

And the main concern that many grid operators have is wondering when most electric vehicle users or fleets will choose to charge their vehicles. When you look at a typical usage day, and this is true, you know, worldwide, it's not just in the US, but electric consumption is higher during, um, the day than at night, and is highest in the early evening. Why do you think that is? If the trend follows into their charging habits, early evening is when most people would likely use the charging infrastructure potentially causing a grid overload and demand for higher energy outputs than current capabilities would be able to. Now, the reason it's higher in the evening is, think about it. You're drunk from work, what do you do to kick back? Some people like to go to the gym, some people like to read a book, but there are a lot of people that will go on social media, that will turn on their ovens, that will turn on their microwaves, that will turn on anything and everything electric in their house, including lights, and boom, there you go, highest energy consumption hours of the day. It's kind of interesting to look into trends that way, or at least I find it so.

Gretchen Reese (12:10):

Um, but if we go into the second piece, which is kind of related, is the lack of national infrastructure. So this isn't necessarily related to the charging hours and trends for that, but this is looking at, you know, more of the charging infrastructure that's actually available. So it's not just when you charge your vehicle, but it's how. Fleet vehicles have different needs than a standard electric passenger vehicle. We know that, right? They typically remain in service longer, they have higher usage rates, and they require more energy. And fleet managers will need to consider charging infrastructure when weighing the pros and cons of adding electric vehicles to their fleet, because obviously, it's important to ensure that whilst on a route or performing a task, that their vehicles won't run out of power, no one wants to be stranded (laughs). So this likely, at least I think, will pave the way for route planning, charging station location strategy in the future, especially if you have companies like Ford that are actually providing route mapping based on current charging infrastructure available within the vehicle itself.

Gretchen Reese (13:09):

Currently, if you look at an international and even a national scale, cities tend to on average, have more charging infrastructure available and charge points for electric vehicles in the suburbs or even remote rural areas, which, you know, one could reasonably understand, I mean, it makes sense, but the charging infrastructure where the denser population is. However, in order to create more confidence for consumers, infrastructure will need to be (laughs) added to all areas within a country in order for a wider adoption of ... uh, adaptation of this technology. And ... or adoptions of this technology, sorry. My words (laughs) are running away from me. I'm recording this quite early in the morning. However, here's what we need to look at.

Gretchen Reese (13:46):

One country that I always will admire for this strategy and, I mean, it's probably (laughs) very, very obvious at this point, especially if you've listened to quite a few episodes of this show already, but it's the UK. And I spoke to somebody, um, a couple of months ago, who was telling me that you're never more than 25 miles away from a charge point anywhere in the UK, no matter where you are. And if you think about it, that pretty much eliminates range anxiety, because no matter where you are, if you're within 25 miles from a charge point, you, you don't have an EV with the range of 25. So you're not gonna be putting a lot of pressure on yourself to be able to really ensure that, you know, you can go at least 100 miles or at least 75 miles before you can find a charge point, which is quite fantastic, and actually, I think has had a lot to do with the higher rates of adoption of EVs just overall in that particular area. But who am I to say that for sure?

Gretchen Reese (14:42):

Now, that's actually a pretty good segue into charge range difficulties. I didn't queue that up on purpose, I promise (laughs). But one aspect of electric vehicles, and this is one of the ... uh, this is the third concern that a lot of folks actually have when it comes to the EV movement. One aspect of EVs that causes quite a reasonable and very understandable concern is their range. So like I said, that whole range anxiety factor. And the question is, how many miles can my drivers if I manage a fleet or myself if it's just my vehicle, go without needing to stop for a charge? And another question is, can I depend on the infrastructure in place? Should I need a charge upon reaching my final destination or work site? What if they don't have one and I'm in desperate need of one?

Gretchen Reese (15:26):

Well, a key piece of this charge range con ... charge range concern, geez, that's a tongue twister, is (laughs) dealing with charge range fluctuations. A typical EV can go roughly 200 plus miles on a fully charged battery. Now that is very dependent obviously on the maker that is behind the vehicle itself, and also how old the battery is, or how many accessories you've got going on at one time. And obviously, that depends on the type of vehicle and its usage too. Not only is this much less than the typical four to 500 mile range of a traditional fuel powered vehicle, uh, but the charge range also tends to be dramatically lower in winter months, in part due to limitations of battery chemistry, as well as the additional power needed to heat the cabin of the car, because no one wants to be driving around like an icicle, at least I don't. (laughs) But what's the solution here? I mean, you know, you have a ton of people that are asking that question, right? Many will say to travel light, which sometimes, you know, if you are trying to go to a job site, that's not always possible, especially, you know, go easy on the heat or the AC or stick to smoother terrain.

Gretchen Reese (16:25):

However, like we just said, not everyone likes to drive like an icicle in the winter and not everyone likes to drive like a little puddle in the summer. So, you know, the heat and the AC might be a little bit harder to actually, um, get through to the point where you go a little bit easy on those. But, you know, if you're a, you're a utility fleet driver or a municipality fleet driver, it's just not possible. Sometimes you just have to wait for the data to reveal the real answers here.

Gretchen Reese (16:51):

Fourth, last but not least, and I'm sure there's more but we're just gonna cover four today is lack of vehicle and power options for heavy duty fleets. Like I said, many fleet types love the idea of electrification, or maybe they don't love it, but, you know, they like it or they know that they need to incorporate it, but simply they can't invest in it and it's not always due to monetary barriers, that would be easy to blame it on. But rather, it's because the vehicles needed for their fleet simply don't exist, at least not an electric form. Or if they do, there's no data to prove that they can actually do the heavy lifting that a traditional fuel powered vehicle can, so therefore they're not willing to invest in them straight away. Take construction fleets for example. In the heavy duty construction center ... uh, sector, electric vehicle technology is widely underdeveloped. There just isn't a solution yet to power the types of equipment needed to perform most tasks on a job site, at least not yet. But it's been said that this technology may be something that we see come to fruition in the next few years, especially if you take a look at someone along the likes of Ford, perhaps by 2050 even.

Gretchen Reese (18:05):

But the concerns or the potential challenges can certainly weigh heavy, you know, but what about the other side of the metaphorical coin? I use metaphorical because I like to use my air quotes quite a lot. Um, but with pressure on organizations coming from their customer base and top level executives, it is no longer a question of whether you're converting to electric vehicles or sustainability efforts in general. It's when. There are many considerations when it comes to prepping your fleet for electrification, from range to weight charging to depreciation, the vast variety of metrics can seem overwhelming to a fleet manager just getting started with this new technology. And many companies are making the switch, but the process of electrification is gradual. We all know that because the price is high and it's not always easy to fully invest in EVs straightaway.

Gretchen Reese (18:48):

It's a pretty big, uh, drop in the bucket when it comes to cost. And most fleets will increase the makeup of EVs in their fleet to about 10% over the next three years and that's usually, you know, as prices start to drop a little bit and adoption, um, becomes a little bit more likely. But, you know, whilst the number may seem small, it still remains highly promising of what the future holds.

Gretchen Reese (19:08):

You know, there's now more consumer plug in electric vehicles on the market than ever before, and many major manufacturers are making the push to develop more efficient models as demand increases. Even as governments create incentives for making the switch to electric, fleets are beginning to realize that there's a strong sustainability initiative. Um, it doesn't just set them apart from the competition, but can ... it can also help sustain their fleets for the long term, um, future. You know, and this is, again, one thing that I touch on every single time I talk about sustainability on this show is sustainability at its core is not just EVs. I really wanna drive that point in. Sustainability is not just EVs. Sustainability at its core is really just trying to ensure that your organization is around as long as possible, as profitable for as long as possible, and you're doing right by your employees and your customers by ensuring that. So whatever way you can get there, whether it's EVs, whether it's alternative fuels or just a balance of both, there's a few options along that line.

Gretchen Reese (20:06):

But, you know, along with the pressure that comes with the movement for EVs, many fleets are recognizing the massive benefits that come along with electrification. Like we touched on a little bit previously, in part, it's lower costs, you know, less on fuel, less on maintenance, and potentially a longer life cycle, meaning one wouldn't have to purchase new vehicles as frequently as before. But what I'm setting out to answer, a question I'm sure you've asked, or at least (laughs) know someone who has is, are utility fleets ready to electrify? Now EVs as well as other alternative fuel sources like I've been saying, you know, throughout the show, and actually, yeah, throughout the show, you know, since, (laughs) since inception of Fleet FYIs, they're becoming increasingly popular. Newer technologies like these tend to have less real world data, which I'm sure we all know by now surrounding their potential success within different industries, when compared to their internal combustion, um, their internal combustion counterparts, which is true, EVs are a newer technology.

Gretchen Reese (21:00):

Um, and the largest pushback against fleet electrification comes from this lack of data, which again, understandable because you wanna make sure it works before you invest in it. But also, it's the comparison that it's lacking to the current reliable internal combustion models that are already at work within the fleet industry. Why? Again, we're gonna answer that. Reason is pretty simple. A fleet vehicle, such as a light duty pickup truck or a bucket truck would have different needs than a standard passenger electric vehicle, and they typically remain in service longer, they have higher usage rates, require more energy, but the data available right now is for, um, EV sedans, which is not an electric (laughs) bucket truck. And that means that fleet managers need to consider charging infrastructure when weighing pros and cons, and also, you know, we're taking a look at, um, like I said, you know, you're weighing the pros and cons there, but then you're also trying to make sure that you are really doing a deep dive into the data that is available before you make that investment.

Gretchen Reese (21:53):

I will say though, that utility fleets do have an advantage here and that advantage is that their usage is much more predictable than the average passenger vehicle, which makes infrastructure planning easier on upper level management. And like I said, um, in terms of new news on the new news, uh, front from the Utility Expo last week, Ford Motor Company just made its single handedly largest investment, um, or single handed largest investment into sustainable technology, um, and data itself. And if I remember correctly, it's something along the lines of 11.5 billion, yes, billion with a B, you heard me right, into creating more sustainable offerings in the future with the goal of going completely electric by 2050. Now that's inclusive of their light, their medium and their heavy duty lineups, which to me is music to my ears. I think it's incredible and I think it's a really great direction that they're going in. It's an exciting time to begin planting the seeds for fleet electrification through any and all decisions, um, or through any and all decisions surrounding it must be based on data rather than guesswork. But you know that. You're all professionals here.

Gretchen Reese (22:58):

As fleet managers determine which aspects of their fleet can be fully electrified, they'll need to turn to infrastructure planning to ensure that they have charging capabilities to serve their new electric assets. We all know this. You know, you can't use an asset if you can't power it. And the answers to these questions as they take a detailed look at their existing fleet data, often using telematics to guide their decision making in their operational processes, there'll be revealed when they do that. But the question remains, do we think that fleets could take on the challenge of fleet electrification? Potentially. And the key here is to be able to leverage your fleet data to identify which aspects of your fleet are best suited to electrification and which are not. Because we know it's not a one size fits all solution, so it won't happen overnight. But when we look to the future, we need to understand that the electric alternative could, could be a way, a singular, a way to reduce (laughs) the carbon footprint of utility fleets nationwide, as well as a way to create a sustainable alternative for fuel based fleets. However, it's not the only way forward.

Gretchen Reese (24:11):

As with any movement, and electrification is no exception, it will take time and a considerable investment. That is a couple of the themes that I'd really like to touch on here. You know, that's no secret, at least I hope it's not. Though one thing I'd like to touch on in the last part of this episode is the inevitable. If you're making a considerable investment into sustainable technology, odds are that you may be anxious as to whether this investment will be worth it. Have you ever heard of range anxiety before? I'm sure you probably have. You may have even felt that yourself. But I think that maybe what most think of when they think of electric vehicles and their potential complications. An EV isn't like a gas powered car where you can just stop at a fueling station and fill your tank in under five minutes. Batteries can take hours to charge. If you run out whilst you're on your trip, that could potentially create a sticky situation. It means you may need to spend unplanned extra time at a charging station for a few hours if you're lucky enough to find one nearby. But a 2019 study done by Volvo found that more than half of the drivers surveyed were unwilling to buy EVs because they were afraid they'd run out of power before being able to charge their vehicle, whilst 49% voiced concern about the limited number of charging stations.

Gretchen Reese (25:18):

Range anxiety is often referred to as the feeling of fear that a vehicle has insufficient range to reach its destination or perform a certain task and that it could potentially hinder performance, strand the vehicle's occupants or be a major cost sink. The term is primarily used in reference to battery electric vehicles, which are BEVs, if you've never heard the term before, and it's thought to be one of the largest barriers to large scale adoption of all electric vehicles and sometimes even hybrid models. Our perception of EVs might take some time to adjust, you know, many still view them as they did back in 2010, but a lot has (laughs) changed in over a decade, I can assure you of that. The new generation lithium ion batteries are advanced enough that most vehicles can run anywhere from 200 to 300 miles on a single charge. And according to Tesla, because 99% of all people in the United States live at least 150 miles from a charging station, it should be possible to plan your routes accordingly.

Gretchen Reese (26:10):

Now, the same goes for fleets but access to infrastructure is key. You already know this. Utilizing your telematics data from your current vehicle assets can also aid in your route and infrastructure planning strategy, because I'm assuming that if you have vehicles that you're planning to electrify, odds are you're gonna run the same routes. Now, that's just an assumption, but I'm sure that would probably be true. And that being said, EVs are shown to be good for consumers and individuals who have them for personal use, but they can also help fleets looking to achieve certain sustainability targets in the coming years. Range anxiety likely plays more into the fears of fleet managers who are trying to balance fleet sustainability and the duties and responsibilities that may require vehicles to travel long distances.

Gretchen Reese (26:48):

Now, a big drain on your EV's battery isn't just the powering of the car, but you know, like we touched on a little bit earlier, it's the heating and air conditioning, which can potentially diminish the vehicle's range by up to 30%, which is one thing to keep in mind. But one way to keep range higher is to emphasize to your drivers the importance of minimizing the use of AC or heat and considering storing EVs inside whilst they charged to prevent the battery from becoming too hot or too frigid because if you live in a cooler climate, that can happen. Um, but that is one way to, uh, diminish a little bit of that range anxiety if that's what you're feeling.

Gretchen Reese (27:20):

Another great feature of many EVs is the regenerative baking ... braking system, not baking, we're not baking cookies here. It's the braking system (laughs), even though I am kind of hungry, but that's besides the point. Make sure the settings maximize regenerative braking and educate your drivers that this feature will generate electricity whilst you're braking which will help you make the most out of your battery's range. For some, especially hybrids, that actually means you're recharging your battery as you drive. And ensuring your drivers are following policies that maximize range can be very important. You know, there are many things that can increase the vehicle's range from keeping a proper maintenance to utilizing space efficiently in the cab. Keeping an EV fleet up and running can mean a lot of trial and error, we know that, or requesting the help of peers that have already electrified. However, even with the need for deliberate and diligent planning, it's not an impossible feat, which is really great to know. Because if you think about it, a lot of anxiety stems from being uncertain of what the future holds, and part of this stems from a lack of public infrastructure currently available or access to limited resources. However, it's a direction that we're headed in and as the US strives to achieve its climate and, its climate and sustainability claims and, um, commitments in the coming years.

Gretchen Reese (28:42):

But I'm curious to hear your thoughts. What do you think about fleet electrification? Are you excited about the potential for heavier duty fleets to potentially electrify in the coming decades dreading it? Like I said earlier, only time will tell because as we all know sustainable technology is a considerably large investment and it takes time to implement the technology and infrastructure that will support it. Tell me your thoughts on the topic. Send me an email, tag me on LinkedIn, my information as always is in the description of this episode or on our show notes over on utilimarc.com, or you can use the hashtag Utilimarc Fleet FYIs. I'm looking forward to reading what you have to say, as always. But until next Thursday, when you'll be hearing from me from straight from London town, I'm actually headed right across the pond in just a little bit, I'll see you in your headphones because that's all for me. Ciao.

Gretchen Reese (29:32):

Hey there, I think this is the time that I should queue the Virtual High Five because you've just finished listening to another episode of the Fleet FYIs Podcast. If you're already wanting more content, head over to utilimarc.com, which is Utilimarc with a C, U-T-I-L-I-M-A-R-C.com for the show notes and extra insights coming straight from our analysts to you. That's all for me this week. So until next time, I'll catch you later.